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Exploration Relic / Data site post Kronos

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Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-06-09 06:47:22 UTC
Ran several Data sites and the loot tables are insulting. Skill books and time to train not worth the time or hassle as you'd do better belt ratting.

Tired of Module, Rig and Ship tool BPCs...there are not that many builders in ALL of EVE history that could use the number of times these are dropped. The parts to build them are the worst volume hogs. There's been so many racial Encyrption skillbooks that they're worth a HS frig belt rat. I've even gotten Jury Rigging.

The decryptors and datacores are nice but meh,,,an avid inventor would burn through a days worth of exploration in less than 2 hours. Using Esoteric Augmentation is a liability.

Exploration is a nice idea but I won't be doing it again till there's a DevBlog citing improvements - significant ones.
Till then EVE is still an F1 shooter game of rats if you want to build up reserves.
Kaliska Ostus
Tritanium Industries and Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2014-06-09 08:23:21 UTC
Relic/Data site are so broken in nullsec post Kronos. Living in nullsec was achievable on relative low SP, making around 50-70mil in an evening of grinding. Now though I would be lucky to get 20-30mil ! I even got a loot drop of 1 carbon in a Ruins can in a Monument site! CCP may have reduced the loot tables by 30% across the board, but I imagine it has only dropped by 10% in high/low sec, but by 50-60% in null to balance it out. How is fair? We dont even get a look in at the new Mordus Legion spawns..! All we've got to get excited about living in null is a few new animations whilst in warp and a new sound of ships going into warp (which is quite cool actually).
C'mon CCP...please sort this out.
xXQxanXx ShadowMaker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-06-09 09:48:25 UTC
I Agree !!!!


Bring back old data and relic sites please ! Now there is no point to risk ship to do any of complex's !

CCCP what you doing :P
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-06-09 10:23:40 UTC
Spent a few hours out I the drone regions the other day, cane back with 5 drone BPCs 2 augmented and 3 intergrated. Looking at about 250mill after production of the drones.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Moth Eisig
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-06-09 15:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Moth Eisig
Toddfish wrote:


Sairait wrote:
I think the loot tables for Ruins nodes (the hardest one to hack) are severely broken. Good 50% of the Ruins dropped less than 100k worth of loot - and many times it contained only few pieces of Carbon and/or Metal Scraps.

I would expect that the hardest (and the only challenging) node to hack would also give the best rewards, but that's clearly is not a case right now.

I've found very similar results. Many of them had a stack of metal scraps and a single stack of T2 materials (and often a lower value one) compared to the lower level containers which would often have several stacks of T2 materials.


Me too. Overall I think the rough isk/hour drop in null has been about what I expected and is workable so this is more weird than profession-breaking, but there do seem to be quite a few of the hardest nodes with next to nothing inside.

edit: It seems that the loot tables think that just because an item is green loot, it's good loot. I just opened two ruins cans with nothing but trigger units and impetus consoles. Less than 1 mil combined.
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#26 - 2014-06-09 19:50:44 UTC
Did some more scanning this past weekend. Found a Crystal Quarry with ~60m in Power Circuits and was ecstatic, but then found some monument and temple sites with Ruins cans containing almost nothing (one had only metal scraps, another had a single stack of T2 loot worth less than 100k). I understand that site/can difficulty, and randomness, plays into this... but I've recently found myself cargo scanning Ruins and then failing the hack twice, just to despawn the site, as the loot isn't worth the time.

Watching the salvage markets it doesn't seem like there hasn't been a big shift in prices (yet?) to compensate for a decreased supply. I wonder how many people (like myself) have been hording their salvage for the past year hoping the prices would go back up at some point... if that's the case (and I think it is), there's going to be quite a delay in price changes if supply/demand is the driving factor.

One hope I have is that they will add a new item to the loot tables... similar to the overseer effects or the new data from Mordu's Legion sites... that will have value independent to salvage material... to increase the profitability of the exploration profession without having a dramatic effect on other areas of the game (rig production).

Increasing the depth of the exploration profession
Alenn G'kar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-06-09 20:38:23 UTC
Behold stats from 2013 more than 50 sites I will start new series maybe because this null sec nerf is realy looks like HS now
http://prntscr.com/3r8976

Solution think:
1. Higher requirements to some conteiners "ruins" "com tower" = lvl4-5 for hack and equal reward not one carbon omg ...
2. Lower scan resolutions for some high value sites like "crystal"
3. Imunne to cargo scaners maybe ...

This is better solution so far, than take all t2 salvage and replace for carbon, it will make impact on prices by time anyway and you will get the same problem and expensive rigs. I was NS solo explorer it was realy hard to does it in safe, and now its better to do it in HS :D

Problem is in SOV mechanics ... now it is quite safe to do expl. and another more profitable actions for people who live there ...
Saraki Ishikela
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-06-10 02:47:22 UTC
I've even run into a few containers that had no loot in them after hacking them open... I now cargo scan everything and have seen this on multiple occasions (over view still shows a solid circle) but no loot in them.

One newbies quest to ExploreEVE: [u]Youtube[/u]: www.youtube.com/exploreeve - **[u]**Blogspot:[/u] http://exploreeve.blogspot.com [u]Twitter:[/u] www.twitter.com/exploreeve** - [u]Facebook[/u]:** www.facebook.com/exploreeve
Jommis
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2014-06-10 08:51:32 UTC
Remove the cargo scan option.
Gerard Naari
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-06-10 11:09:42 UTC
All those tears that you cant earn free billions in covert op ship :)

You feed me.
Alenn G'kar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-06-10 13:02:27 UTC
Its not free if you guarding them moron =) what are you do in NS ? I bet you are a miner :D
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#32 - 2014-06-10 15:20:03 UTC
I"m wondering if perhaps someone simply plugged the previous loot table into the non-spew container instead of merging the entire table first. This would result in a massive reduction of loot, empty cans, and cans with nothing but carbon, electronic parts, T1 salvage, etc.

Everything that used to be in all the spew containers should be in the new loot table, minus whatever factor was appropriate.

Hi, Toddfish.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#33 - 2014-06-10 15:27:43 UTC
Kaliska Ostus wrote:
Living in nullsec was achievable on relative low SP, making around 50-70mil in an evening of grinding. Now though I would be lucky to get 20-30mil !


It was broken from the begining then. Low skills, low risk, cheap ships, what did you expect? Remove scattering and keep "old" loot tables? If you want to make serious money exploration must be harder. Want some money, make it sweat. You all missing one detail. CCP wants to keep ships building and blowing up. Explo is bastard child. Looking at loot tables was a %value cut, i wonder how long it takes to decide something like that instead of "looking at loot tables and maybe remove those LMJD BPCs...".

Alenn G'kar wrote:
1. Higher requirements to some conteiners "ruins" "com tower" = lvl4-5 for hack and equal reward not one carbon omg ...
2. Lower scan resolutions for some high value sites like "crystal"
3. Imunne to cargo scaners maybe ...


I don't think putting all "good loot" in harder cans will change anything, sites will be cherrypicked anyway, even if you remove cargo scanning ability. Everybody will just go for "best " cans at sites. I don't think removing cargo scanners from exploration is good thing either. I hack very few cans/site after kronos and i like it. I'm kinda forced to scan cans before hack because of crap loot (i did all cans pre kronos). This lead to less clickfest in hacking which is good thing IMO. If they not change loot inside i will be cherrypick cans.

Exploration must be tight connected to skills because its too easy now. Easy activities must not grant huge amount of ISK. It will not change in the future, new EvE available for "all" players (read new, read more money) is coming.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#34 - 2014-06-10 19:27:39 UTC
I don’t think removing the ability to cargo scan cans will change anything. Until loot spew, and now unless it’s a Ruin’s can with nothing but scraps, I always hack all the cans (if only to get the site to despawn). The cargo scanner tells me what order to do them, but I could use the can names for that too. If there were sites with rats, that I needed to fit a minimal tank for, the cargo scanner would be the first thing I’d change out.

Personally, while I wish others wouldn’t run sites (more for me!), I don’t mind finding a cherry picked site... that’s still ISK someone else has left for me to get (rather than having not found the site at all). Yes, the ISK/hr is lower since the high value items are gone, but it’s still more fun for me than shooting crosses or chewing rocks.

Yesterday I ran my first Ghost Site on Tranquility (I’d done a couple on Singularity during development, but this was the first time with real assets at risk). I will say, it was quite a bit more exciting than the normal Data/Relic sites... with enough risk to have to refit my ship... and enough rewards (a high-grade ascendancy alpha and mid-grade ascendancy omega implant BPCs) to make it worth it. I really think we need more data/relic sites with this level of “barrier for entry” as a progression for the profession... it would justify the whole risk/reward thing too, allowing for greater profits for those who put more at risk.

Soldarius wrote:
Hi, Toddfish.

Hi Cool

Increasing the depth of the exploration profession
Genixia Vynneve
Kor Security
#35 - 2014-06-10 20:54:00 UTC
I ran 2 relic sites yesterday in 0.7 and 0.6 for a total of;

4 empty cans
1 skillbook worth 20k ISK
3 of some crappy t1 salvage worth 290 ISK each.

I don't expect millions out of high-sec, but this is laughably broken/
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#36 - 2014-06-10 23:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rekkr Nordgard
I like the fact that loot vomit was removed and would have even been ok with the advertized 30% loot value reduction. However the fact that nullsec sites actually got hit with a 50% to 75% loot value reduction and now Remains are more valuable than Ruins is absolutely ridiculous. I hope this was done accidentally and not intentionally and will be fixed quickly instead of having to wait a year again.
Xonx Trax
Psychopathic CareBears
#37 - 2014-06-11 13:42:15 UTC
Great work CCCP! Evil
Null sec...
Ruined Sansha Crystal Quarry - 2x red core empty Evil
Collected only 20-30mil. from full site, without empty box Evil
Moth Eisig
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-06-11 13:50:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Moth Eisig
Nullsec sites are fine overall from what I've seen in Blood Raiders and Sansha regions. I'm still pulling in ~100-120mil an evening, which is slightly less than before, but still a pretty good way to earn isk. The worthless ruins are weird and very disappointing after battling through a tough hack, but there are just enough really good cans to make up for it.

I did a small number of Guristas sites one evening, and they seemed ok as well due to a decent number of power circuits, logic circuits, and enhanced wards, but I only have a really small sample size for Guristas; I have not done any Serpentis sites since Kronos came out.

There might be a problem in Angel space though. There are no 15 cap console/Intact armor plate + 10 power circuit drops to make up for the worthless ruins cans since they don't get cap consoles or armor plates. Angel sites were worth less before, but the new loot tables seem to have hit their ruins cans particularly hard due to even the ruins drops that look like they're supposed to be good containing a lot of the Angel specific t2 salvage items that are almost worthless.
Orovana
Infinity Works
#39 - 2014-06-13 07:37:21 UTC
Post Kronos i have done my fair bit of exploration and it seems to me that there is some issue with the empty hight end containers that i hope CCP will resolve rather sooner than later.

As for the Relic sites CCP does not care what types of t2 salvage they have in the containers and this is as it should be. That means that Mirco Circuits woth roughly 8-10k is equal to Intact Armor Plate. As we have a supply and demand driven system CCP have not way to know what will cost what and adjust for it so it is fair for everyone. That is to say that with new mordus ships it is unfair to the other Pirate faction mission runners because of the hip nature of new ships. So as far as i see CCP need to ensure that containers spaw propper ammounts of materials or at very least state that the current situation is intended.

My main consern is with the data sites. My invention rather nicelly dependant on me finding datacores and decriptors in those. With the new changes those are a loooot less and i can live with that, but the chance does not seems to affect the other not so desireable loot like BPCs for interfaces and the materials connected to them them. I have issue with 2 things there. 1 materials are to 2 heavy to even consider looting unless you are done for the day and going home and 2 those Interface BPC are pretty much damn worthless due to the mechanic of them not been spent in the invention process. So in that regard i have a proposal that might not make the intention players all that happy but will actually increase the value of data sites. So make all materials for those Interfaces weight 0.1m3 instead of current 1m3 so we can actually scoop them even when exploring with small frigs. And about the BPC make them produce say 100 Interfaces per run and spent a single interface per invention job, much like the change to the RAM that will come next manifacturing content release.

I want to state the exploration is very fun thing to do in null sec and love doint it oposed to Rating/Mission Runing/Mining/Anomaly runing. And i really like that runing exploration does not introduce new ISK in the game while allowing us to make profits ( I kinda think that CCP went way overboard with the anomalys and incursion and missions that intruduce new ISK in the game from bountys and rewards, while not introducing new money sinks-
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#40 - 2014-06-13 20:03:20 UTC
I have re-posted this here in the hopes CCP Affinity will notice. Feedback from the community is also appreciated.

I joined EVE along time ago. I remember a corp mate inviting us to a grav site he found. I wanted to know how he found it. He called it exploration. I was hooked.

I researched what it would take to be an explorer and build a skill plant to do it. It was hard and took a long time to not only train the skills to achieve success but to also learn the techniques of which probes to use and how to manipulate them to find the sites.

It really was a niche profession because it was time consuming and hard. The reward? Sometimes crap (relative) and on a rare occasion something really good. Regardless you made some isk; at least from the rats you killed.

I understand why that all changed with Odyssey BUT to accommodate those that choose to make exploration a profession they forgot to add something important to the lowered entry level: A class of exploration site(s) that is DIFFICULT to find and a loot table expansion to support it.

I can live with sites that are so easy I now use an interceptor to explore null sec without the scanning modules and only one probe strength rig. I can live with the hacking exercise only because I thought it would be applied to other player owned structures a careful explorer can hack into and steal from. I hated the loot spew for all the usual reasons and I am glad it is gone. I can even live with the rat removal although now with the introduction of mobile depots I think rats need to be reintroduced. What I find the most disappointing about the entire exploration revamp is that it does not accommodate those of us that want good skills and want difficulty and want depth of play.

Please, with the new six week expansion cycle, build on the current exploration base. Introduce rats to sites on a random basis. Expand hacking to other areas of the game: Start with offline POSes. Introduce a new class of exploration site that demands experience and high skill levels. Triple (or more) the loot tables in size and scope.

Maybe these ideas will help relief some of the pressure on the markets with the current exploration model but until then I guess we will all need to continue cherry picking.

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