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Exploration Relic / Data site post Kronos

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Dire McCan
Titan's Pain and Pleasure
Sigma Grindset
#1 - 2014-06-05 14:24:53 UTC
Hello,

I hope it's the good place for this.

Exploring Nullsec Relic and Data sites was my main income before Kronos.

As i am off these days, i tryed to make a lot of site. I say tryed as there is a lot of people doing the same thing atm.

I am very surprised by the balance in loot to compensate the loot spew. At the moment, for me it look totally broken.

The average relic site in nullsec give me around 6 / 8 M.
The average Data site in nullsec give me around 8 / 12 M.

For the data site it look like a -30% balance but for relic ... it look more like a -70% balance.

Sites are faster with the new loot mechanic but we will need a lot more site to make the same income.

As an exemple at how its broken, take a look at the sceenshot below, i didnt thought it was even possible. I think i just won Eve exploration !

360 000 isk for a whole relic site in -0.9 ???

http://i.imgur.com/w4hwnx5.png

Any opinion are welcome,
Later.
Sasquatch28
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-06-05 15:55:26 UTC
I say bring back the old mag and radar sites with rats in them
Sairait
CHON
THE R0NIN
#3 - 2014-06-05 16:53:44 UTC
I hacked about a dozen of Relic sites in null-sec post Kronos.

Rubble and Remains nodes always dropped a lot of different salvage materials, so the decrease in loot gets evened out by the fact that I get all the loot, no problem there ...

However, I think the loot tables for Ruins nodes (the hardest one to hack) are severely broken. Good 50% of the Ruins dropped less than 100k worth of loot - and many times it contained only few pieces of Carbon and/or Metal Scraps.

I would expect that the hardest (and the only challenging) node to hack would also give the best rewards, but that's clearly is not a case right now.
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4 - 2014-06-05 19:58:56 UTC
Running Data/Relic sites in null has returned slightly lower estimated loot values post Kronos (from ~30m each down to ~20m each). The quantity of items being the driving factor, as est. prices haven't changed much since the patch. I'm able to clear them faster (since I don't have to wait to collect scatter cans before moving to the next hacking event). Spawn rate has been similar to before, but I have noticed more people running/scanning sites than prior to Kronos.

I'm happy to have loot spew removed (even in exchange for less rewards) as it removes one area of frustration from the process. I typically got 80-90% of the valuable items with loot spew (by cargo scanning, selectively picking cans, and using the implant), but all the extra clicking was never fun. Loot spew was one of the main reasons why I started "cherry picking" data sites rather than running them to completion.

Sairait wrote:
I think the loot tables for Ruins nodes (the hardest one to hack) are severely broken. Good 50% of the Ruins dropped less than 100k worth of loot - and many times it contained only few pieces of Carbon and/or Metal Scraps.

I would expect that the hardest (and the only challenging) node to hack would also give the best rewards, but that's clearly is not a case right now.

I've found very similar results. Many of them had a stack of metal scraps and a single stack of T2 materials (and often a lower value one) compared to the lower level containers which would often have several stacks of T2 materials.

Sasquatch28 wrote:
I say bring back the old mag and radar sites with rats in them

I really like the idea of different levels of Data/Relic sites... with levels of risk and reward. The current sites are great for those who fly/risk cov ops and other smaller ships, but having even a few rats (like the old mag/radar sites) would allow for a second tier of sites with slightly more risk (requiring a minimally combat capable ship) for slightly more reward. This would allow for progression through the profession (and would tie in well with the next level of exploration, the combat/DED sites).

Increasing the depth of the exploration profession
toran Estemaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-06-06 02:15:22 UTC
since Post patch i have done about 100 relic sites and there is definitely something wrong i woulds really like CCP to confirm the math behind the the 30%(or so they say) cut

I assumed that what was going happen was a 30% cut to stack sizes or to the % either a 10 stack becomes 7 or you have a 30% less chance of getting so i.e a 7% chance of 15 power circuits instead of a 10% chance

What i think has happened is that have nerfed the loot by 30%(or more?) and then on top of that they have nerfed the amount of stacks,before the patch i would say the average is about 6-7 stacks in a can very rarely only 1 and sometimes as high as 10+ ,but now its seems that 2-3 is the average and 6+ is the rare top end with 1 now being fairly common
Kopac Boskovic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-06-06 05:32:17 UTC
post Kronos, i had more stable loot income from low sec data/relic sites then null sec sites

low sec sites feel like they got reduced by 30% across the board, which i don't mind and it seems right, but i find that null sec sites really vary from can to can, yesterday i found in 1 can ~20 mil worth of loot and in rest 20 cans all together around ~15 mil worth of loot, it seems that loot for null sec really inbalanced
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#7 - 2014-06-06 06:39:48 UTC
Relic sites in null seems random. I manage to loot 10-35mil per site yesterday. I lost some valuable loot to hacking failure (i don't know is it just my bad luck or hardest cans become even harder, those virus supressors!). Bit low but I think it's good that way because it's exploration after all, and it shouldn't be "stable" 50 mil income per site. Cargo scanner is your friend.

Data sites on the other hand are completely garbage. I have zero interest in datacores, BPC are crap, decent decryptors are rare. I found site yesterday with only one per six cans worth hacking...Datacores are cargobay stuffing. I've looted 120m3 of them - about 13mil total worth. In nullsec condition they are crap because there are no stations there to drop them and 120m3 is 1/3 of my total bay.

Data loot so far - about 50 mil
Relic loot - about 200 mil

I've scanned about 40% more data than relics. Insmother region.

I think there's a need to look after loot tables not only cut them in some %.

Also there's no scattering, my neck and tired eyes send best regards to Dev team (i wanna add wrist too but it would be awkwardBig smile)



"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Gerard Naari
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-06-06 09:10:09 UTC
1 Whine that exploration was to difficult.
2 Dumb down exploration.
3 Now whine that you have share profits with others.

You sir are the Sherlock.
Yanting Arbosa
Marmantis Corp
#9 - 2014-06-06 11:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Yanting Arbosa
I just done exploration for about 3 hours though low and null sec.

I see a problem on top of reduced loot. I am finding the sites have been cherry picked and left, so i am going in and finding a half empty site. In my opinion if sites get raided to any degree they should de-spawn after a set time to save heaps of people scanning that same site to find it has one container with one carbon in it.

Total for 3 hours scanning relic sites was not more than 3 mil. I do admit though i only found data sites and did not scan down a relic site the whole time.

Nice surprise though i like that they blow up and do damage now.
Kupena
Xenophobics Asylum
#10 - 2014-06-06 12:23:33 UTC
Gerard Naari wrote:
1 Whine that exploration was to difficult.


Exploration was not difficult, it was what you call - dumb. Layer upon layer of rng.
Julian Sandcastle
Quartermoon Syndicate
#11 - 2014-06-06 22:18:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Julian Sandcastle
What was the rough data/relic breakdown before the path?

I think I went 50+ jumps today, and 75-80% (conservative) seemed to be the new Contested Guristas Research Facility, which I was avoiding because of the reports I've seen of exploding exploration ships. This means about 3/4 of the data sites I found were the new facility, and 1/4 was regular data sites.

I think overall I was 35% combat, 35% WH, 25% Data, and 5% relic.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#12 - 2014-06-07 00:47:40 UTC
They nerfed your income? Holy Hell!

If only there was such a thing as supply and demand influencing prices...
Mira Chieve
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#13 - 2014-06-07 15:12:44 UTC
What the hell guys....

Pre patch I could get from 30 up to 70 mil per a nullsec relic site, after the patch, I am happy if I even get 10 mil !

Many of the best "ruins" containers are completely empty or contain only trash like carbon.

Half of the cans in the site isnt even worth hacking so I just blow them up to save time and make the site respawn faster.

Do not even get me started on Data Sites...
Ginger Barbarella
#14 - 2014-06-07 16:04:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Exploration sites & anoms are broken. Be patient, guyz... CCP will fix sometime in the next 3 years.

Edit: loot has also apparently been nerfed, but I suspect their anti-spew loot nerf hit regular loot distributions as well.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
realstar
Real Star Space Knights
#15 - 2014-06-08 05:51:48 UTC
Did several Data sites in drone regions after Kronos released, and NEVER get any loot from hardest to hack container. And also didn't see any 'augmented' drones BPCs from Kronos release, but start to getting more 'integrated' drones BPCs, that dont cost nothing.

So exploration in drone regs become unvaluable...doing anomalies are more profitable now, what's the point than of data sites in drone regions?
Arthus Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-06-08 05:56:36 UTC
Good thing cutting the "expansion" in half and only releasing what is ready stops stuff like this, amirite guysy?
SanSoucis
Lucidus Ordo
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2014-06-08 08:27:34 UTC
just to make matter clearer, the problem is that sites drop tables are farked or that they wont despawn after cherry-picking so you will find only the stuff the guy that got there before you didnt want?
Sairait
CHON
THE R0NIN
#18 - 2014-06-08 08:59:21 UTC
SanSoucis wrote:
just to make matter clearer, the problem is that sites drop tables are farked or that they wont despawn after cherry-picking so you will find only the stuff the guy that got there before you didnt want?


Drop tables are fubared for the hardest nodes (Ruins), everything else is fine.
- very often there's only trade goods inside (carbon, scraps, ..), nothing else
- most of the time only 1 salvage material drops (and if it's crap, the loot is worth less than 10k)
- you still can get lucky and get 10 intact armor plates, but that happen pretty rarely post-Kronos

/Sairait
Dire McCan
Titan's Pain and Pleasure
Sigma Grindset
#19 - 2014-06-08 09:07:15 UTC
SanSoucis wrote:
just to make matter clearer, the problem is that sites drop tables are farked or that they wont despawn after cherry-picking so you will find only the stuff the guy that got there before you didnt want?


It happened one or two days but it look like it was fixed as they despawn properly now.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#20 - 2014-06-09 04:13:57 UTC
They despawn properly except when they don't.

Those Contested Guristas sites seem to like hanging around if the capsuleer leaves before the shed blows up.

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