EVE General Discussion

Messing around with the preview build of EFT seemed to suggest that CDFE's did better for overall EHP on a full tank procurer, with the resist bonus on top of that using the skiff would the transverse bulkheads still be better?

Wrong.

Mackinkaw 2/4/3 slots
Hulk 3/4/2 slots
Skiff 1/5/3 slots

They have the same slots, 9 each. Except mackinkaw and hulks extra slots are high slots which are wasted on cpu gobbling mining modules. The skiff has the same yield as the mackinkaw and not far below the hulk thanks to huge mining bonuses.

Op have you tried:
A fitting implants
B cheap faction/meta4 tank?

you still seem to be oblivious as to whats happening here, they introduced the original skiff as the bottom line yield, meaning that even if a coordinated interdiction like the blue ice one is in place, there's still at least skiffs mining in highsec. that was the point, that was the idea. the problem was that miners are stupid in levels that are beyond baffling so they kept mining in mackinaws even when they had flashy reds in local.

so CCP did the next best thing besides making CONCORD insta spawn on aggression, they made the skiff even better.

again, the point is, you are not supposed to be able to gank in any reasonable way a skiff and the changes you keep proposing go against that spirit.

the yield of the skiff, is the baseline yield. be it because CCP doesn't want players to have complete control over extraction via interdictions or because CCP just plain hates you, who knows. the point is, the ship is doing what it is supposed to, first "not dying to catalysts" and second, "tempting even the most stupid and sperg infested miner into using it."

if anything, the only unbalanced thing about it is the drone bonus, i don't mind it not dying to catalysts, but it should still die to a suspect bait.

I love my Skiff. OP is just crying too much/doing it wrong

[Skiff, Innocent Miner]

Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


Hammerhead II x10

Did you know that you don't need a CPU implant or meta4 modules to fit a Skiff for max yield and T2 shield tank? All the other mining barges & exhumers have extremely tight fittings, with the main problem being the extremely high CPU usage of strip miners and ice harvesters. There is no problem with "tight fittings" on a Skiff, you have CPU and PG to burn.

What the OP is calling for is a reduction in fittings for the Skiff to bring it in line with the other ships in the same category. I'm not sure why this is so hard for everyone to understand? Perhaps they're all just too attached to their super-tank cyno ship?

OP is a fool.

[Hulk, 0.0]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Domination Shield Boost Amplifier
Domination Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Domination Kinetic Deflection Amplifier

Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Mining Drone II x5

Short of rigs, it's MAX yield. I run a sig res ganglink and a shield harmonizing ganglink on my rorq next to the 3 mining links, and this hulk can tank nearly any spawn. Completely cap stable with any crystals. Tank can be changed for angels with ease, or for drones, though it's a little shakier on the drones.

But lets put some numbers out there;

Tank vs guristas (60% kin, 40% therm): 277 dps
Sig radius: 167m
Mining laser optimal range: 36.7km
Implants required: 3% cpu slot 6 implant
Additional implants used: Highwall 5% yield, slot 6
Capacitor stable at with highest CPU usage crystals: 39%

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY: YIELD.
Miners: 3592m3/M
Drones: 309.4m3/M
Total: 3901.4 m3/M


So, that's 3901.4 m3/M yield, cap stable, with a solid tank, one that doesn't even get close to blowing up short of a nasty faction/officer spawn. Whats the procurer do again for yield with all its godly cpu again?

[Skiff, maxyield]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Medium Core Defense Operational Solidifier I

Mining Drone II x5

Tank vs guristas (60% kin, 40% therm): 274 dps
Sig radius: 125
Mining laser optimal range: 29.3
Implants required: None
Additional implants used: Highwall 5% yield, slot 6
Capacitor stable at with highest CPU usage crystals: 66%, even with survey scanner running full time

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY: YIELD.
Miners: 2739m3/M
Drones: 309.4m3/M
Total: 3048.4 m3/M



End result:
Hulk can tank 0.0 belt rats just fine, and still fit for absolute max yield
Skiff can more easily tank the same rats, at significantly shorter mining range (29.3km vs 36.7km). This is the difference between mining the large asteroid belt from 2-3 spots with careful positioning, to easily from 2 spots.

Yield: 31% higher yield from strip miners on the hulk.

So, yes, sure, you CAN mine in a skiff, it's probably good in highsec with the difficulty to gank if you buffer fit, but for nullsec? Enjoy your pathetic yield.

"But Arronicus, you never touched on buffer, Skiff has super ama-" You're damn right I didn't. Buffer doesn't matter for real mining (0.0). You can active tank the rats, shrug them off, and mine for 100% full yield, or you can buffer tank, swap to combat drones and kill them, then swap back to miners, possibly lose a hulk because the buffer didnt hold out long enough, and overall, lose some of your yield per hour.

I don't think it's intended to "be in line" with any other mining vessel.

It serves a dual role, good mining and good combat capability... this is why it's fittings and slot layout are the way they are.

You can get extremely creative with your load out, and although you'll always fall short of best in breed when it comes to mining you'll still perform that function well enough to not feel like you are useless on a mining expedition. You will still fill a profitable function even if no combat occurs. But if it does, you can pull more than a few surprises out of your hat.

It's a combat vessel that a miner will actually fly, and one that can be extremely unpredictable to it's intended opponents... that being clever human pilots instead of easily counter-able NPC ships. Versus NPC's you can simply fit specifically for them... a cookie cutter set up is fine. But against human opponents you'll need to be able to be very creative, especially if your Skiff happens to be the only one in the group. Fortunately you have the ability to fit it almost any way you please, meaning a would be human attacker looking for easy targets cannot simply assume what your fit is and counter it easily.

Don't get me wrong, I'll have no problem with it if they decide to tighten things up... but I fully understand and approve of their reasoning for this first iteration.

I fit my skiff for three mining upgrades and fit a mackinaw with two upgrades and mid slot tank and survey. I ran each for about 5 hours and found in real world in-system test the mack still makes more isk per hour.

Spreadsheet analysis is not real world so fit some ships and find out what I did the mack with less theoretical yield still wins in actual practice because time to unload and get back to burning roids as well as subtle advantages of having more strips and not less makes the mack still high sec mining king even if fit to around 15k tank and loses out on spreadsheet analysis.

That maths is flawed because the 1 highslot on the skiff is equivalent to the 3 on the Hulk & the 2 on the Mack.
Meaning the Skiff actually has more slots overall than the other two variants.