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Procurer/Skiffs are imbalanced now vs the other barges.

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Silky Cyno
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-06-04 13:21:58 UTC
You can still gank them, you just have to spend 10 times what there worth to do it.

Did you really expect CCP to let a large part of the player base to take it in the B-hole forever vs gankers before they gave them a tanky decent boat ?
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#22 - 2014-06-04 13:30:33 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Your post is missing the yield numbers. Please supply those to give your argument substance. Thanks.

Thats the trade off to tank is yield or cargo hold. The skiff was fine before and it is fine still now.

I like to fly the skiff because I get passed over in the ice belts for the idiots that fit zero tank and max yield. Sure I may have to dock up and unload and warp back but that’s the trade off.

I sacrifice less yield for the privilege of getting passed over by the gankers.
Nopatience
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-06-04 13:33:29 UTC
Silky Cyno wrote:
You can still gank them, you just have to spend 10 times what there worth to do it.

Did you really expect CCP to let a large part of the player base to take it in the B-hole forever vs gankers before they gave them a tanky decent boat ?


I have proposed that skiffs CPU is reduced so that a max yield skiff would have around 50 cpu spare for fitting mid slot modules. This change doesn't mean that skiffs will suddenly become ganked all the time. Providing the skiff user has good skills and has chosen his tank wisely, even if he is max yield fitted, I doubt he'll ever actually get ganked. You have nothing to worry about.

It's only the careless, stupid who will lose their ships, and I doubt even that will happen very often. Skiff will still be the strongest barge by far.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#24 - 2014-06-04 13:35:59 UTC
Still don't know why the OP wants to nerf the single best bearing ship in the game

But anyway

Anyone got a max DPS or Speed fit for either the Skiff or the Proc?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#25 - 2014-06-04 13:40:03 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Your post is missing the yield numbers. Please supply those to give your argument substance. Thanks.

Thats the trade off to tank is yield or cargo hold. The skiff was fine before and it is fine still now.

I like to fly the skiff because I get passed over in the ice belts for the idiots that fit zero tank and max yield. Sure I may have to dock up and unload and warp back but that’s the trade off.

I sacrifice less yield for the privilege of getting passed over by the gankers.


+1
Just confirming that someone understands what a game is. Some people will say "I play a game for fun therefore the game should never force me to make uncomfortable choices or make sacrifices because that's not fun".
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-06-04 13:47:50 UTC
Nopatience wrote:
Silky Cyno wrote:
You can still gank them, you just have to spend 10 times what there worth to do it.

Did you really expect CCP to let a large part of the player base to take it in the B-hole forever vs gankers before they gave them a tanky decent boat ?


I have proposed that skiffs CPU is reduced so that a max yield skiff would have around 50 cpu spare for fitting mid slot modules. This change doesn't mean that skiffs will suddenly become ganked all the time. Providing the skiff user has good skills and has chosen his tank wisely, even if he is max yield fitted, I doubt he'll ever actually get ganked. You have nothing to worry about.

It's only the careless, stupid who will lose their ships, and I doubt even that will happen very often. Skiff will still be the strongest barge by far.


The Skiff is intended for those that are neither careless, nor stupid. The Skiff has a single high slot, allowing it to fit only one mining module(plus mining drones if you wish), while having the second largest ore hold of the Exhumers. This gives it the ability to be in space for an extended period of time, mining at a reduced rate as compared to the other Exhumers, while being difficult to take down given its massive EHP as compared to the other Exhumers. It is also able to fit mid slot modules intended to increase the its EHP even further, allowing it to stand up to more damage and either escape or hold out for reinforcements.

As for your whining that you'll never be able to kill one, I assure you that you can kill them if you actually wanted to. What is stopping you from webbing and scraming the ship and then just eating through its EHP? You have all the time in the world to apply your damage if you keep it pointed.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#27 - 2014-06-04 13:51:04 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Still don't know why the OP wants to nerf the single best bearing ship in the game

But anyway

Anyone got a max DPS or Speed fit for either the Skiff or the Proc?

With three T2 APCs and two PG rigs, one of which T2, you can fit a storyline 10MN MWD for 1800 m/s. With AB it tops at around 900-1000. Damage with medium drones and three DDAs is around 400.

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Nopatience
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-06-04 13:52:44 UTC
Xavier Higdon wrote:
Nopatience wrote:
Silky Cyno wrote:
You can still gank them, you just have to spend 10 times what there worth to do it.

Did you really expect CCP to let a large part of the player base to take it in the B-hole forever vs gankers before they gave them a tanky decent boat ?


I have proposed that skiffs CPU is reduced so that a max yield skiff would have around 50 cpu spare for fitting mid slot modules. This change doesn't mean that skiffs will suddenly become ganked all the time. Providing the skiff user has good skills and has chosen his tank wisely, even if he is max yield fitted, I doubt he'll ever actually get ganked. You have nothing to worry about.

It's only the careless, stupid who will lose their ships, and I doubt even that will happen very often. Skiff will still be the strongest barge by far.


The Skiff is intended for those that are neither careless, nor stupid. The Skiff has a single high slot, allowing it to fit only one mining module(plus mining drones if you wish), while having the second largest ore hold of the Exhumers. This gives it the ability to be in space for an extended period of time, mining at a reduced rate as compared to the other Exhumers, while being difficult to take down given its massive EHP as compared to the other Exhumers. It is also able to fit mid slot modules intended to increase the its EHP even further, allowing it to stand up to more damage and either escape or hold out for reinforcements.

As for your whining that you'll never be able to kill one, I assure you that you can kill them if you actually wanted to. What is stopping you from webbing and scraming the ship and then just eating through its EHP? You have all the time in the world to apply your damage if you keep it pointed.


The single mining slot for the skiff is an advantage, not a disadvantage. Due to how bonuses are applied it's the equivalent of the mackinkaw's 2 mining slots and not far from the hulks 3 high slots.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#29 - 2014-06-04 13:55:56 UTC
Nopatience wrote:


The single mining slot for the skiff is an advantage, not a disadvantage. Due to how bonuses are applied it's the equivalent of the mackinkaw's 2 mining slots and not far from the hulks 3 high slots.


Would be better if it had a second non-turreted one for a cloak though

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-06-04 14:03:05 UTC
Nopatience wrote:

The single mining slot for the skiff is an advantage, not a disadvantage. Due to how bonuses are applied it's the equivalent of the mackinkaw's 2 mining slots and not far from the hulks 3 high slots.


I'm not sure how that single mining laser is an advantage against a Skiff being blown up. Did mining lasers get a damage buff in Kronos? I lost two Retrievers about a year ago, one to a Hound and one to a Loki, and both times I wasn't even able to break their passive shield regen using my mining lasers.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-06-04 14:11:52 UTC
Altrue wrote:
My my my... these are sweet, delicious ganker tears Shocked

I hear they are very good in cakes.



I hear they are key to making a good humble pie also.
Magnus Orly
Crucial Contribution
#32 - 2014-06-04 14:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Magnus Orly
Nopatience wrote:
Procurer/Skiffs are imbalanced now vs the other barges.


Statistics from last fanfest:

Mining volume for barges and exhumers:

37% - Retriever
29% - Mackinaw
17% - Hulk
7% - Covetor
6% - Procurer
4% - Skiff

This shows to what extent the different barges are used I guessed. So what one can say is that Procurer and Skiff definately haven't been overpowered until now at least. Sure...now they did get some small buffs but that just might get them to be used more by players.

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Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#33 - 2014-06-04 15:03:35 UTC
i've said this dozens of times on the forums but i just have to say it again.

griefer tears = best tears in the game.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2014-06-04 15:23:33 UTC
Tenchi Sal wrote:
i've said this dozens of times on the forums but i just have to say it again.

griefer tears = best tears in the game.


Its not griefing.

That said, miners will continue to use untanked macks and retrievers. Skiffs will mostly be used as baitTwisted
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-06-04 15:28:39 UTC
Perhaps you need to make fitting decisions then do you want a tank or yield? You don't get to have everything at once otherwise what's the point of having a diverse line of ships.

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Dealth Striker
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-06-04 15:43:56 UTC
Like what usually happens - a ship will look more beneficial after a tweak, it will be popular thus be more in demand. Tons of isk will be spent and made on the building, selling, and buying of the ship. Players will skill train for that ship if they have not already.
CCP will run the numbers and after awhile decide to either nerf the ship or boost others to make this ship not as desirable as it once was.
The cycle of CCP err life starts all over again.

The whiney and demanding posts are more enjoyable than any said tears posts.

Business logic 101 - if nothing is said, everything has to be okay with our product/service.
Striker Out!!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#37 - 2014-06-04 15:52:13 UTC
Most miners didn't fly Skiffs or Procurers anyway, nor will they now, they're not prepared to sacrifice yield for EHP.

If you're a ganker they're undesirable targets, if you're a miner they're undesirable because they sacrifice yield to be undesirable targets.



In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#38 - 2014-06-04 15:57:44 UTC
Nopatience wrote:

BARF

If your data, against all known facts, should be valid.

Why didn't you mention it during the last 2-3 months that the changes has been discussed?

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#39 - 2014-06-04 15:59:40 UTC
Highly doubt op is a ganker. Sounds more like a carebear who is buthurt that he can't fit for max tank and yield on every mining ship.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
Radelix Cisko
JUMP DRIVE ACTIVE
#40 - 2014-06-04 16:03:33 UTC
Favorite use of Procurers was 2 of the them tackling my alts Orca in LS while a Proteus dealt damage. They had no chance against a Falcon though.


I still have that Orca BTW.

Despite my posting prowess I really am terrible at this game