Warfare & Tactics

tl;dr version of the answer to that question: NO, it does not work.

Taking advice from Dyrsonbenningon about game mechanics in EVE online is like taking advice from your kitten for how to build a space shuttle.

At best, Dryson will teach you how to appear on CONCORD killmails. If you have any sort of grip on reality, after a short period of time you will realize that your presence on the field is not actually affecting anything and the exact same battle will play out regardless if you were there or not, you will likely move on to doing something useful.

Or join us! We have lots of lol and much pew pew pew :)

I don't even know why you would use armor logi to save miners. All mining ships are shield tanked. You have to apply as much overheated shield transfer as possible and you must do this as quickly as possible, hence the idea of "Burst Osprey." (with armor logi you also need to watch and wait the shields go down before actually starting to repair.)

The info below might be out-dated, but to give you an idea:

[Osprey, Allahu Akbar]
Reactor Control Unit II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

Sensor Booster II
Medium Capacitor Battery II
Medium Capacitor Battery II

Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x4



More info at: http://www.astralservices.net/?Anti-gankLogistics

As for your fits, Dryson, I respect your willingness, but not really the results. Before sharing your fits, make sure that they have at least one proven in-game success in a given gank-countering scenario.

Otherwise, this thread will turn into Bennington's Fail-Fit Factory [BFFF]


Thanks for the laugh. +1

Actually it will work to a certain degree. If the gankers have enough alpha to kill the target in one fleet volley, then the target will die before Concord can kill the gankers. If the gankers do not have enough to alpha in one volley, and have to fire more that 2-3 volleys; then Concord being on grid may counter the gank, as Concord will most likely be able to one shot the gankers. Not to mention Concord also jams, and Faction Police will also be on hand.

I lol'd. However, I'm fairly certain puppies give better advice than kittens. I'm looking for a good corp where I can act on my desires to destroy things. You all have some space?

If you want to PvP - join FW, EVE University, Red vs. Blue, or Brave Newbies. All will provide you with PvP opportunities with the latter 3 actually giving you some guidance.

You've collected fail fit before and got some working shield ones later. You know, that's not even funny anymore, just dumb.
/unsub

It really doesnt. We still come in dunk on your face and blast through your reps with no issues.

Code (666) - White Knights (0)

Your misunderstanding of how Code. works and why would be laughable it it weren't so mind numbingly awful. We don't get told to gank, we don't receive orders, we volunteer for everything. James is a very busy man with saving high sec and all.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

Read over Dryson's proposal that we are discussing, the mighty "The Scissors Attack Technique" Now, stop laughing :) Anyway, check out the specifics of what he has titled as "The final tactic against CODE." which will result in the "beginning of a new era".

So, the final tactic consists of - "First create two alts from your primary." Sure. Ok, now we find the bumping ship that is keeping the freighter where we want it. Check! Ok, now one of those throw away alts shoots the bumping ship. This results in the alts rookie ship being lost, ONE spawn of concord being moved on grid, and that alt having a 15 min countdown during which time he no longer can have any meaningful effect on anything.

Now, at this point DrysonBennington starts to lose touch with reality. To quote:

"This will draw CONCORD to the exact location where the target is located. You will lose security status and a rookie ship in the process but getting the auto-pilots through the gates is more important. "

This makes zero sense and I don't understand how he thinks that doing a trivial amount of damage to the bumper and causing one CONCORD spawn to appear on grid is somehow going to.... prevent the bumper from keeping the freigher bumped?

But wait! The unstoppable "scissors attack technique" has a secret weapon! A SECOND ALT. According to Dryson, we can now use that second alt to cause a "fresh set" of concord to show up on grid! Right? No! Not even close :) There is already one CONCORD spawn on grid. That spawn will destroy the second alt, resulting in no change at all to the situation.

And then we have..

"Continue to employ this tactic for as long as the targeted ship remains on auto-pilot. If CODE decides to arrive and do any ganking then CONCORD will already be on the scene and CODE will not be able to gank their prize."

We've totally jumped off the reality bus now and are just lost in the vast wilderness of how game mechanics work in the mind of DrysonBenningon. You can continue to employ this tactic as long as you want - there is still ONE concord spawn on grid, and everytime one of these two magical alts shoots something on the same grid - that exact same concord spawn kills the alt. Additional spawns are not created.

So, we warp in to kill the freighter in a fleet of 10-30 ships depending on the targets fittings and what kind of ganking fleet comp we are running. Let's assume we use 20 catalyst players to attack our target.

All 20 cats drop on grid and open fire. Whoever was unlucky enough to fire FIRST will be destroyed by the SINGLE spawn of CONCORD after somewhere around 8 seconds. That unlucky agent will have time to fire 3-5 vollys depending on skills.

That leaves 19 cats on grid who have also starting shooting, and the moment they opened fire - if there is already other CONCORD spawns *anywhere* in the system, that spawn will jump to that player after the normal amount of time passes. Assuming this is 0.5 - we're talking a full 17-22 seconds before that player is locked down and destroyed. Repeat this for all 19 of the players. If there are not already 19 spawns of CONCORD somewhere in the system - then a "fresh" spawn will show up for some of the players. The "fresh" spawn is actually a little bit quicker then a spawn is already available in the system, and the result is about 5 seconds less time for that player. So 12-17 seconds or so.

tl;dr version - this technique in our imaginary 20 man catalyst fleet results in 1 of the 20 not doing the full amount of damage. This is why generally you use a bit more firepower then you actually need to make this a total non-issue.

Now, let's get creative and assume Dryson gets 10 other people to imagine he knows what he is talking about. So all ten of them warp to the bumper and fire - now we have TEN spawns on concord right on the gate, which will cut out DPS by a bunch - but that's where basic strategy comes into play! We have a few simple choices at this point that negate this, I'll give you the super obvious ones and leave some of them to your imagination or google use to figure out.

1) Bumper counts ten concord spawns @ gate. Ten of us undock in rookie ships and warp to the POCO that is closest to the gate and all shoot it at the same time. All ten spawns move to the poco. Gate is clear. Gank fleet warps in.

2) Bumper bumps the freighter over 150km away from all concord spawns. If concord is more then 150km away from you when you go criminal, they might as well 100au away. You get the full timer.

But wait! What if after we pull concord away from the gate the might scissors technique players all undock their second alts and go shoot the bumper again?

I'm not going to go any further with this except to assure you that with some creative thinking and understanding of how CONCORD moves and how Criminal timers work - and perhaps some support from a rather large and specific ship type - this is just trivial.

End result of the "Scissors Technique" = worthless. Based on someone's incomplete understanding of the involved mechanics and of no value against a experienced gank fleet. At best - it would present a minor annoyance that may result int the target being destroyed 2 or 3 mins later then it would have without the "Scissiors Technique".

Unlike DrysonBennington - this analysis is based on actual proven experience. :-)

Gotcha! Very good explanation, but couldn't one spawn of Concord be able to kill multiple ships? After all they instapop ships, so I would assume they could kill ships in quick succession. Isn't that what happens? The onsite Concord kills the first ship, then the second, and so on. What I am getting from DJentropy is that a new Concord has to spawn to deal with additional ships.