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Carriers/Supercarriers reliably chewing up cruisers
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Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#21 - 2014-06-05 16:56:39 UTC
Olivia Berett wrote:
Exactly what I said. You ventrue a lone capital into 10 cruisers, ur done. That is RIGHT.

What is wrong is a capital ship being stopped by ONE SHIP. I also agree that should be possible for a lone ship to EVADE a capital due to agility and speed, maybe a faceoff of the smaller capital and the bigger battleship could be somehow balanced, but it is out of any logic that one of the biggest capital ships can be stopped by one single cruiser of any sort.

What is suggested there is that balancing is made with the idea that any ship must be able to face any other ship, and that is crap. That is the kind of crap the wrecks all MMOs, and is sure starting to get to EVE.

If something is hard to get, hard to build, hard to be able to use, that also must be put into consideration.

What I see a lot in the test server is that u dont really need tens of small ships to wreck a capital. And the number needed is really getting lower and lower each expansion.


HICs are designed from scratch to be able to hold down supers and titans. They have the ability (and are the only ship in the game) to fit a module called a Warp Disruption Field Generator. This module and warp interdiction spheres are literally the only way to prevent them from warping or jumping. They also have excellent tanks coupled with cruiser-sized sigRad.

The fact that HICs can now get obliterated in seconds by capital-sized weapons, weapons that are 2 size classes larger than them, is utterly ludicrous.

But, hey. It doesn't stop there. Someone in a ratting Thanny killed 9 bombers and a recon with only a single flight of Geckos yesterday, and he did it from the refrigerator. Yes, he was afk.

Proof: http://themittani.com/news/alod-defeated-empty-chair

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Olivia Berett
Advanced Weapon Supplement League
Fraternity.
#22 - 2014-06-06 00:00:31 UTC
Im not talking about OP specific post, Im talking about the general idea that capitals are easier than they should to counter.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#23 - 2014-06-06 15:40:22 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
But, hey. It doesn't stop there. Someone in a ratting Thanny killed 9 bombers and a recon with only a single flight of Geckos yesterday, and he did it from the refrigerator. Yes, he was afk.

Proof: http://themittani.com/news/alod-defeated-empty-chair


A flight of Geckos should be able to decimate a gang of poorly coordinated cloakies, especially if the carrier was fitted for 'ratting.

Could the same carrier do the same thing using fighters instead of Geckos? That's the question.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#24 - 2014-06-06 16:11:37 UTC
Athraws wrote:
hellswindstaff wrote:

If there's more than one and you dont have the ability to tackle them (AHEM light Dictor) you should probably stfu and warp out. Much angry butthurt over something you likely will never tackle anyway


Because light dictors and their bubbles are totally not removed by smartbombs. Totally not. Besides, Romana, I'm not concerned over the possibility of being killed by legions of subcap-annihilating fighters myself, but over what this will do to the meta.

A change like this simply encourages even MORE people to get into supers and discourages the use of anything else in fights of importance, in addition to lowering the risk of using supers in combat.

Supercarriers were INTENDED to be powerful platforms against other capitals and, to some extent, battleships, and were expected to have to rely on support fleets for tackle (ie dictors/hictors) or escape (by killing tackle). If CCP desired them to have the ability to track and annihilate cruisers by themselves, they would never have removed their ability to deploy 'normal' drones.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/capital-ship-balancing/

I suggest you read this.


Much butthurt over the usual...."CCP PLEASE MAKE THINGS EASY FOR ME" thats why you have two coalitions and blobs of ****.
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#25 - 2014-06-06 16:27:26 UTC
hellswindstaff wrote:
Much butthurt over the usual...."CCP PLEASE MAKE THINGS EASY FOR ME"
Yep! That's exactly what I'm hearing from the supercarrier pilots too! P
Athraws
Rising Thunder
#26 - 2014-06-06 16:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Athraws
hellswindstaff wrote:
Athraws wrote:
hellswindstaff wrote:

If there's more than one and you dont have the ability to tackle them (AHEM light Dictor) you should probably stfu and warp out. Much angry butthurt over something you likely will never tackle anyway


Because light dictors and their bubbles are totally not removed by smartbombs. Totally not. Besides, Romana, I'm not concerned over the possibility of being killed by legions of subcap-annihilating fighters myself, but over what this will do to the meta.

A change like this simply encourages even MORE people to get into supers and discourages the use of anything else in fights of importance, in addition to lowering the risk of using supers in combat.

Supercarriers were INTENDED to be powerful platforms against other capitals and, to some extent, battleships, and were expected to have to rely on support fleets for tackle (ie dictors/hictors) or escape (by killing tackle). If CCP desired them to have the ability to track and annihilate cruisers by themselves, they would never have removed their ability to deploy 'normal' drones.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/capital-ship-balancing/

I suggest you read this.


Much butthurt over the usual...."CCP PLEASE MAKE THINGS EASY FOR ME" thats why you have two coalitions and blobs of ****.


And still incapable of reading I see.

The point, beyond petty cries of "U MAD BRO", is that this change can only make nullsec WORSE, in terms of yet again giving a greater advantage to groups with more pilots. A small group will now find themselves totally incapable of merely tackling a super or two, much less holding them till either the super's support fleet arrives, or the gank fleet arrives.

Unlike what you and many others (mistakenly) appear to believe, supers were/are not intended to be 'solo' ships. They need support to operate, which is as it should be.
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#27 - 2014-06-06 16:59:50 UTC  |  Edited by: hellswindstaff
Athraws wrote:
hellswindstaff wrote:
Athraws wrote:
hellswindstaff wrote:

If there's more than one and you dont have the ability to tackle them (AHEM light Dictor) you should probably stfu and warp out. Much angry butthurt over something you likely will never tackle anyway


Because light dictors and their bubbles are totally not removed by smartbombs. Totally not. Besides, Romana, I'm not concerned over the possibility of being killed by legions of subcap-annihilating fighters myself, but over what this will do to the meta.

A change like this simply encourages even MORE people to get into supers and discourages the use of anything else in fights of importance, in addition to lowering the risk of using supers in combat.

Supercarriers were INTENDED to be powerful platforms against other capitals and, to some extent, battleships, and were expected to have to rely on support fleets for tackle (ie dictors/hictors) or escape (by killing tackle). If CCP desired them to have the ability to track and annihilate cruisers by themselves, they would never have removed their ability to deploy 'normal' drones.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/capital-ship-balancing/

I suggest you read this.


Much butthurt over the usual...."CCP PLEASE MAKE THINGS EASY FOR ME" thats why you have two coalitions and blobs of ****.


And still incapable of reading I see.

The point, beyond petty cries of "U MAD BRO", is that this change can only make nullsec WORSE, in terms of yet again giving a greater advantage to groups with more pilots. A small group will now find themselves totally incapable of merely tackling a super or two, much less holding them till either the super's support fleet arrives, or the gank fleet arrives.

Unlike what you and many others (mistakenly) appear to believe, supers were/are not intended to be 'solo' ships. They need support to operate, which is as it should be.


A small group doesnt have the firepower to down a super anyway so whats the point. So somebody else can do the work? Gotta love the omg just tackle that and hope someone will come kill it idealogy. Nullsec was dead the day this happened http://evenews24.com/verite-renditions-sov-map/ . Actually this helps the little guy......the dude who logs in his super in low sec after 2 year hiatus just might make it out of some giganto blob coalition tacklers clutches. How many times you see someone log in a super and get tackled by ONE lucky hic pilot. I think its an improvement if the tackle can get roflstomped b4 "help" (which is usually an alliance blob) from helping. Win one for the little guy ehh?

PS. YOUMADBRO?
Athraws
Rising Thunder
#28 - 2014-06-06 17:52:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Athraws
hellswindstaff wrote:

A small group doesnt have the firepower to down a super anyway so whats the point. So somebody else can do the work? Gotta love the omg just tackle that and hope someone will come kill it idealogy. Nullsec was dead the day this happened http://evenews24.com/verite-renditions-sov-map/ . Actually this helps the little guy......the dude who logs in his super in low sec after 2 year hiatus just might make it out of some giganto blob coalition tacklers clutches. How many times you see someone log in a super and get tackled by ONE lucky hic pilot. I think its an improvement if the tackle can get roflstomped b4 "help" (which is usually an alliance blob) from helping. Win one for the little guy ehh?

PS. YOUMADBRO?

Romana, I'll agree as far as nullsec's stagnation via the proliferation of the 'Rental Empires' and formation of the sov blocs, but I don't really see what that has to do with anything. So wohoo da little guy coming back to the game can sell his super before getting ganked now...to one of the ppl that would have ganked him. I don't see how this helps any.

As usual, its quite entertaining watching the antics of those who lack the ability to build a properly coherent argument and instead opt for explaining why the people who attempt to make intelligent points that are backed up by *gasp* logic and references, are angry or somehow personally upset by the changes. And we can't forget changing the subject as an excellent attempt to derail the opposition.

Anyway, with supers able to reliably destroy subcaps, there's no need for a support fleet anymore, which can only lead to having larger and larger blobs of supers. Which is bad.

As I've said, supers had some defense against single/small numbers of hics. Namely, neuts and ecm bursts. And, most importantly, their subcap support fleet. Unless, of course, they're stupid enough not to have one. In which case they should \die/
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#29 - 2014-06-06 20:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: hellswindstaff
Athraws wrote:
hellswindstaff wrote:

A small group doesnt have the firepower to down a super anyway so whats the point. So somebody else can do the work? Gotta love the omg just tackle that and hope someone will come kill it idealogy. Nullsec was dead the day this happened http://evenews24.com/verite-renditions-sov-map/ . Actually this helps the little guy......the dude who logs in his super in low sec after 2 year hiatus just might make it out of some giganto blob coalition tacklers clutches. How many times you see someone log in a super and get tackled by ONE lucky hic pilot. I think its an improvement if the tackle can get roflstomped b4 "help" (which is usually an alliance blob) from helping. Win one for the little guy ehh?

PS. YOUMADBRO?

Romana, I'll agree as far as nullsec's stagnation via the proliferation of the 'Rental Empires' and formation of the sov blocs, but I don't really see what that has to do with anything. So wohoo da little guy coming back to the game can sell his super before getting ganked now...to one of the ppl that would have ganked him. I don't see how this helps any.

As usual, its quite entertaining watching the antics of those who lack the ability to build a properly coherent argument and instead opt for explaining why the people who attempt to make intelligent points that are backed up by *gasp* logic and references, are angry or somehow personally upset by the changes. And we can't forget changing the subject as an excellent attempt to derail the opposition.

Anyway, with supers able to reliably destroy subcaps, there's no need for a support fleet anymore, which can only lead to having larger and larger blobs of supers. Which is bad.

As I've said, supers had some defense against single/small numbers of hics. Namely, neuts and ecm bursts. And, most importantly, their subcap support fleet. Unless, of course, they're stupid enough not to have one. In which case they should \die/


M8 nobody is running around with fighter/max dps builds on their supers. and change brings adaptation......personally if i was going to attempt to hold down a super i wouldnt use 1 hic anyway .....2 hics with logi solves the problem...it encourages teamwork tbh....not some random dude who got a lucky tackle off. Like I said before this is a large SUPER carrier. The fact that it can launch 10 fighters to kill smaller targets is working as intended. lets be honest thats like saying a real life aircraft carriers fighters should not be able to blap smaller ships making suicide runs at it. and FYI the super blobs are not stopping anytime soon. We have moved way beyond that point. There is no fix for it in sight
Spacial Girl
Ethereal Beings
#30 - 2014-06-06 22:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Spacial Girl
Athraws wrote:
hellswindstaff wrote:

A small group doesnt have the firepower to down a super anyway so whats the point. So somebody else can do the work? Gotta love the omg just tackle that and hope someone will come kill it idealogy. Nullsec was dead the day this happened http://evenews24.com/verite-renditions-sov-map/ . Actually this helps the little guy......the dude who logs in his super in low sec after 2 year hiatus just might make it out of some giganto blob coalition tacklers clutches. How many times you see someone log in a super and get tackled by ONE lucky hic pilot. I think its an improvement if the tackle can get roflstomped b4 "help" (which is usually an alliance blob) from helping. Win one for the little guy ehh?

PS. YOUMADBRO?

Romana, I'll agree as far as nullsec's stagnation via the proliferation of the 'Rental Empires' and formation of the sov blocs, but I don't really see what that has to do with anything. So wohoo da little guy coming back to the game can sell his super before getting ganked now...to one of the ppl that would have ganked him. I don't see how this helps any.

As usual, its quite entertaining watching the antics of those who lack the ability to build a properly coherent argument and instead opt for explaining why the people who attempt to make intelligent points that are backed up by *gasp* logic and references, are angry or somehow personally upset by the changes. And we can't forget changing the subject as an excellent attempt to derail the opposition.

Anyway, with supers able to reliably destroy subcaps, there's no need for a support fleet anymore, which can only lead to having larger and larger blobs of supers. Which is bad.

As I've said, supers had some defense against single/small numbers of hics. Namely, neuts and ecm bursts. And, most importantly, their subcap support fleet. Unless, of course, they're stupid enough not to have one. In which case they should \die/



Supers should be a powerful weapons platform capable of annihilating anything in their path. These things are meant to be the most dangerous things that their respective factions can produce and put out. Sure, supers might no longer need a support fleet (Spider tanking is possible if you have enough supers on field.), but instead now a subcap support fleet can worry about other tasks than defending specific supers, or they might even be able to feild more DPS instead of subcap dps and logi. We might actually get to see fights that consist of HIC's with their logi battling to stay alive while a super fleet does it's thing. Aside from tanking, subcaps don't really need to be involved anymore with large scale super-carrier and titan combat. This could easily lead to a cleaner field and less lag for everyone if doctrines update and less pilots of all shapes and sizes are needed to preform now trivial tasks. What will really happen is any super fitted to hit those smaller ships will give up tank, and in turn become a better, bigger, more expensive target.

Also Hellswindstaff

We could always mount a CWIS to our supers :D http://puu.sh/9i66A/cd1582679c.jpg just like a real life Carrier. Then we could cold track a stoat several KM away and blast it to itty bits without even locking on. Twisted

Oh right... Q_Q WYVERN OP plz nerf Pirate Or Buff it moar Big smile
Olivia Berett
Advanced Weapon Supplement League
Fraternity.
#31 - 2014-06-07 01:06:04 UTC
You sound like we capital pilots want be overpowered. It is far from it.

Capital Ships have intrinsec hardships that goes beyond only the combat itself.

Capital Pilots, carriers overall, can never use them to "solo pvp", to "go around hunting", and stuff. To take your capital to a spin is a pain in the ass. Sub pilots can just point, warp, jump, auto pilot and etc. Capital ships need a fleet just to do a fraking jump to the next system.

In combat your positioning, your very entrance in the field, must be strategically done.

And with all that you still want also us to be vulnerable to one ship to hold us down for time enough for u to bring a fleet ?

Whos wanting easy life ?
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#32 - 2014-06-09 10:32:41 UTC
The point has always been that a cap fleet without a subcap fleet is a sitting duck.

I hope they fix fighters to go back to this state.

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[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
hellswindstaff
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#33 - 2014-06-09 18:07:38 UTC
Olivia Berett wrote:
You sound like we capital pilots want be overpowered. It is far from it.

Capital Ships have intrinsec hardships that goes beyond only the combat itself.

Capital Pilots, carriers overall, can never use them to "solo pvp", to "go around hunting", and stuff. To take your capital to a spin is a pain in the ass. Sub pilots can just point, warp, jump, auto pilot and etc. Capital ships need a fleet just to do a fraking jump to the next system.

In combat your positioning, your very entrance in the field, must be strategically done.

And with all that you still want also us to be vulnerable to one ship to hold us down for time enough for u to bring a fleet ?

Whos wanting easy life ?



Bingo.......all I see is " I want to tackle supers with easy so I can scream for help from some entity capable of killing it"
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#34 - 2014-06-09 21:02:00 UTC
hellswindstaff wrote:
Bingo.......all I see is " I want to tackle supers with easy so I can scream for help from some entity capable of killing it"
And meanwhile the super should be screaming for help to kill these HICs (plural) before the fleet capable of killing it arrives.

You keep ignoring what CCP said in the dev blog where they nerfed supers: "If you want to kill subcaps, bring your own subcaps."
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