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Domi/ishtar nerf please?

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Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#21 - 2014-06-02 15:41:31 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
5km idea for retaining controll actually sounds pretty nice. Arronicus summaried it pretty well. Sentries are far from gettin nerfed.


Make it that they orbit and you have yourself a deal.

The rest is just numbers juggling, for example the mega will have significantly more dps at a lower range.

Does it? from what I see domi with bouncers does still more dmg than mega with navy antimatter. Or very similiar if you go for more dps instead. on top of that there are still domies high slots usually full of neuts or other nasty stuff that will screw you up.


Never stick too heavily to what you think in the early morning Debora :D


Do tell how to get 1300 blaster dps out of bouncers :)

Im trying to talk here about fleet usage of those things. Not gank mega which das 1300 dps at 5km and isn't used for anything else. Please go back to your lvl4 missions and losing industrial ships.

Im not negating here that mega is a bad ship tho...personally love it
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-06-02 16:16:34 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
You will be losing moas faster than they will be losing drones.

Since Moa's are substantially cheaper and easier to train for you can probably bring twice as many of them or more. Or you could go with Eagles or rail Tengus.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-06-02 16:17:40 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:

Im trying to talk here about fleet usage of those things. Not gank mega which das 1300 dps at 5km and isn't used for anything else. Please go back to your lvl4 missions and losing industrial ships.

Im not negating here that mega is a bad ship tho...personally love it


No , you are not, you are focusing your dislike of a playstyle towards specific hulls, something of a carebear demanding the nerf of the catalyst.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-06-02 16:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
In regards to "drones being hard to train"...i cant agree with that either. T1 sentries are easy to train, they don't perform as well as T2 ofcourse but it's same story as with T2 guns.

T1 sentries are not nearly as powerful as T2. The difference between T1 and T2 guns is far smaller than the difference between T1 and T2 drones.

Also, you can't overheat drones. You can overheat guns.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2014-06-02 18:27:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Im not saying you that I can't kill ishtar. This forum shouldn't be about **** like that.

Im talking about these ships clearly out performing any other ahac in their category and being hugely unbalanced.




well, kill the drones, move away from them, fly close to the on ab. and you kill 100% of the dps.

those are not misle nor gun bots. so stop crying about it. they work on difrent rules. Roll if you would not make them do 400 dps with 30 km range no one would use them, because they would be very very bad.

if you play smart against semi dum enemies, yes they are OP, as any other thing in the game if you abuse it.

but it's very easy to counter sentry drones. so i see no reson to nerf them. They allready got a big nerf after all recently.



Roll
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2014-06-02 18:31:37 UTC
There already balance....
there the only weapon system you can directly destroy neutering your enemy's dps.
this vunerability offsets the pro's by quite some distance
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-06-02 19:23:10 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
There already balance....
there the only weapon system you can directly destroy neutering your enemy's dps.
this vunerability offsets the pro's by quite some distance

Indeed. Disco Rokh's and stealth bombers come to mind here.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#28 - 2014-06-02 20:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaade
Barton Breau wrote:
Do you have some numbers? Because when i look at rails i see similar tracking as sentrys, apart of garde, which have more tracking, but also dont have the range.

And we are still talking about 0.012 vs 0.03 , when say blaster have 0.09.



The EFT warrior strikes!!!

You should try playing the game rather than staring at ship fittings out of Eve. There is a massive difference between effectiveness in combat and your little numbers on the screen.

Ishtar's easily out-perform every other HAC in most situations. For the narrow-minded: There is always a niche another ship may excel in, that is not the point. They are versatile enough to load 4 neuts while still dealing 500+ dps, or guns for 750+dps, or cloak, or remote reps, etc.

Ishtar's are blatantly unbalanced, mostly due to sentry drones in my opinion. Sentry drones easily slaughter everything, from frigate to battleship, while allowing the Ishtar itself to fly in any direction, pull any range (with assisted drones, particularly), without any concern for tracking. This is unlike any ship using turrets, who must pay close attention to ranges, transversal, and their location to enemy threats such as tackle, etc etc.

Don't even get me started on the idiocy of Geckos.

Please try to compare the Ishtar to the Eagle, or to the Munin, etc...you should then realize the truth.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-06-02 20:43:13 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Ishtar's are blatantly unbalanced, mostly due to sentry drones in my opinion. Sentry drones easily slaughter everything, from frigate to battleship, while allowing the Ishtar itself to fly in any direction, pull any range (with assisted drones, particularly), without any concern for tracking. This is unlike any ship using turrets, who must pay close attention to ranges, transversal, and their location to enemy threats such as tackle, etc etc.

Don't even get me started on the idiocy of Geckos.

And yet the sentry Ishtar has no control over the range or transversal to what they are shooting at like a gun boat does. Its not hard to get under sentry drone tracking in a small ship. Nor is it hard to have a bomber or two bomb the drones off the field.

Geckos are a limited issue item and they will soon be rare enough to not be factor in most PVP situations.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#30 - 2014-06-02 20:55:30 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
Do you have some numbers? Because when i look at rails i see similar tracking as sentrys, apart of garde, which have more tracking, but also dont have the range.

And we are still talking about 0.012 vs 0.03 , when say blaster have 0.09.



The EFT warrior strikes!!!

You should try playing the game rather than staring at ship fittings out of Eve. There is a massive difference between effectiveness in combat and your little numbers on the screen.

Ishtar's easily out-perform every other HAC in most situations. For the narrow-minded: There is always a niche another ship may excel in, that is not the point. They are versatile enough to load 4 neuts while still dealing 500+ dps, or guns for 750+dps, or cloak, or remote reps, etc.

Ishtar's are blatantly unbalanced, mostly due to sentry drones in my opinion. Sentry drones easily slaughter everything, from frigate to battleship, while allowing the Ishtar itself to fly in any direction, pull any range (with assisted drones, particularly), without any concern for tracking. This is unlike any ship using turrets, who must pay close attention to ranges, transversal, and their location to enemy threats such as tackle, etc etc.

Don't even get me started on the idiocy of Geckos.

Please try to compare the Ishtar to the Eagle, or to the Munin, etc...you should then realize the truth.


Wow somebody who actually understands this game...i was losing hope.

Tbh at the bottom line we don't really need to argue about this ****. Just look at those market volumes, they are both traded at waaay higher volumes than any other ship in their category. This doesn't happen if ships are balanced, not in this large margins.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-06-02 21:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Tbh at the bottom line we don't really need to argue about this ****. Just look at those market volumes, they are both traded at waaay higher volumes than any other ship in their category. This doesn't happen if ships are balanced, not in this large margins.

So when something is popular for PVE we should nerf it into the ground? Man, I hope you never hear about how good marauders are at L4 missions or how good pirate BS hulls are at incursions.

Its not like you have to train Cruiser V, Sentry Drones V, Drone Sharpshooting V, Drone Interfacing V, Heavy Drone Operation V, Heavy Assault Cruisers V, Drone Navigation V, and Scout Drone Operation V, a measly 29 ranks, to really make the Ishtar shine.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#32 - 2014-06-02 21:23:57 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Tbh at the bottom line we don't really need to argue about this ****. Just look at those market volumes, they are both traded at waaay higher volumes than any other ship in their category. This doesn't happen if ships are balanced, not in this large margins.

So when something is popular for PVE we should nerf it into the ground? Man, I hope you never hear about how good marauders are at L4 missions or how good pirate BS hulls are at incursions.



Im perfectly fine with 1bil hull ship performing great in those cases. And Im also sure that you love when you can run anything up to 9/10 plex in your little ishtar with no risk just by warping in and orbiting in safe distance while your drones kill everything. Oh wait...for those you would need to leave high sec. Anyway...I had an impression that eve isnt supposed to be easy or a game for kids. Please go play WoW and stop crying about your mission boat getting nerfed.

P.s. considering how easy pve is these days i really doubt those high volumes are caused by people dying to rats. You buy domi and fly it untill some player kills you.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-06-02 21:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Im perfectly fine with 1bil hull ship performing great in those cases. And Im also sure that you love when you can run anything up to 9/10 plex in your little ishtar with no risk just by warping in and orbiting in safe distance while your drones kill everything. Oh wait...for those you would need to leave high sec. Anyway...I had an impression that eve isnt supposed to be easy or a game for kids. Please go play WoW and stop crying about your mission boat getting nerfed.

I find this funny as I don't even own an Ishtar and live in a region of null where the Ishtar actually isn't that great for PVE.

Please go back to WoW and stop crying about how some people spent months training for a ship that is actually good at something when you want it NAOW.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-06-02 21:43:10 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Please go play WoW and stop crying about your mission boat getting nerfed.

Only person crying about a (desired) nerf here is you.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2014-06-02 21:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
P.s. considering how easy pve is these days i really doubt those high volumes are caused by people dying to rats. You buy domi and fly it untill some player kills you.

So are they getting killed in PVE fits by roamers in null or are they getting killed in large PVP fleet actions? It sounds like you need some data to make any kind of point here. In either case I don't see a problem. There are plenty of counters to an Ishtar fleet that have already been pointed out and PVE fits almost always die to PVP fits no matter what ships are involved.

I think the real lesson here is that you should get into the business of inventing Ishtars.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-06-02 22:00:00 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Im not saying you that I can't kill ishtar. This forum shouldn't be about **** like that.

Im talking about these ships clearly out performing any other ahac in their category and being hugely unbalanced.




well, kill the drones, move away from them, fly close to the on ab. and you kill 100% of the dps.

those are not misle nor gun bots. so stop crying about it. they work on difrent rules. Roll if you would not make them do 400 dps with 30 km range no one would use them, because they would be very very bad.

if you play smart against semi dum enemies, yes they are OP, as any other thing in the game if you abuse it.

but it's very easy to counter sentry drones. so i see no reson to nerf them. They allready got a big nerf after all recently.



Roll



400dps@30?

So slightly less than a HAM cerb, much more than a vagabond....you need a better argument than that Blink imagine if the cerb had raven DPS...because Ishtar has domi DPS
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#37 - 2014-06-02 22:00:52 UTC
Wow, I did not see the carebear line yet... Nerf this, no nerf that, no nerf me... A good trick when using the nerf bat is to test it out on yourself first. If you just wishing to be OP just say so, you know you want to.

If you can't figure it out then Eve must be broke...

Is that my two cents or yours?
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#38 - 2014-06-02 22:08:20 UTC
counter...like domies, slowcats and 3:1 blob? :P you still seem unable to understand thing with outperforming it's category. It's funny that we got something in common. All 3 of us fly these doctrines...the difference? I ask to nerf them because i see what they can do/will be able to do with kronos, and want more balance in this bloody game...you cry against because CVA/Fcon finally found a doctrine with which you can actually kill something without having to include thinking part.

Anyway, I now realize that here are just too many forum warriors here(which can't even post with their mains usually) and too little actual sense/interesting in improving the game. Have a fun o7
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2014-06-02 22:19:16 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
counter...like domies, slowcats and 3:1 blob? :P you still seem unable to understand thing with outperforming it's category. It's funny that we got something in common. All 3 of us fly these doctrines...the difference? I ask to nerf them because i see what they can do/will be able to do with kronos, and want more balance in this bloody game...you cry against because CVA/Fcon finally found a doctrine with which you can actually kill something without having to include thinking part.

Anyway, I now realize that here are just too many forum warriors here(which can't even post with their mains usually) and too little actual sense/interesting in improving the game. Have a fun o7

You mad bro?
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#40 - 2014-06-02 23:23:02 UTC
I don't know why your awful frigate can't kill a Dominix and Ishtar, I have no idea.




NONE.

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
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