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At last! A fair, balanced debate on Climate Change!
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#21 - 2014-06-01 21:00:57 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
"What if the climate change is one big hoax and we are just creating a better world for nothing"

- Some comic I once came across.


Relevant

I'm in it for the money

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Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-06-01 21:05:34 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
"What if the climate change is one big hoax and we are just creating a better world for nothing"

- Some comic I once came across.


Relevant



See! They can make a music video against reality! Thus reality is not real! (Or not as real as the OT God, who would go friggin' balistic if you denied him)

Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#23 - 2014-06-01 21:24:28 UTC
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:


See! They can make a music video against reality! Thus reality is not real! (Or not as real as the OT God, who would go friggin' balistic if you denied him)

haha! yeah totally bypass what the video is about, why it was made, the insane lie they got caught red handed in and still hold to. Just lay waste to it with silly comments, ignore it and go on with the age old campaign that gets lots of the high instigators filthy rich. I've just never been into hokey religions, myself... or is that hockey religion? ah

I'm in it for the money

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digitalwanderer
DW inc
#24 - 2014-06-01 21:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Saving the Planet?Lol


Fighting back climate change is not about saving the planet. It's just about saving our sorry asses.


You can not save the humanity from itself.


Of course. But we're here because of all the ones who fought the good fight.



And now the current and next few generations are going to screw it all up...:P


I was going to post that video too, which states that the planet has gone thru hell in all it's existence, but it's still here and only the dominant species living on the planet at the time changes, so it's inevitable unless some drastic laws are put into place that people will not like, like what was done in china for 30 years and recently lifted:


1 child per family or perhaps encouraging killing yourself once you reach a certain age where you can't work anymore, can't pay taxes like you used to, but the health insurance costs go thru the roof because you get sick much more often, and the unfortunate reality is that for many people they are serious conditions with no cure yet, and they still receive their government pensions just the same, from government in each country getting more broke and in debt, every decade that passes.


I'm sure this will end up fine....P
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#25 - 2014-06-01 21:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Saving the Planet?Lol


Fighting back climate change is not about saving the planet. It's just about saving our sorry asses.


You can not save the humanity from itself.


Of course. But we're here because of all the ones who fought the good fight.


And all those good fights have lead us where? How would you like to live in a cave and eat raw meat again? How humanity can stop fighting the good fights if you don't show them how? Can you fight the good fight to save you from yourself? You are your worst enemy now. Try not to win, because if you lose, your worst enemy is losing too.

Alternatively, we could just wait and adapt to new situations and environments, like always.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Adunh Slavy
#26 - 2014-06-01 22:24:50 UTC
The problem with the whole climate thing is, some of you think it is a good idea to force people to do what you want. There is no "fair, balanced debate" so long as one side of the debate has guns.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#27 - 2014-06-01 23:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: jason hill
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
jason hill wrote:


absaloute tosh ! worst statement ever ! .... in the middle ages here in the
UK we used to grow grapes ...yes here in the UK we had vinyards ... also in the 18th century our elders used to ice skate on the river thames ........WHICH WAS WELL BEFORE THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION !!!!


facts young padwan !! get your facts RIGHT ! before jumping on the bandwagon !

im not suggesting we arnt assisting ...but FFS ! cows fart more c02 than we produce ...shall we kill all of them aswell ....

"duh!" headbutt to the fkn face for uninformed stupid post !

Fun fact!

We grew grapes and made wine when part of the Roman empire. Infact we made wine until a cultural change and a love for Mead in the dark ages, it wasn't picked up again in the uk until the mid 20th century due to a lack of knowledge even though we could grow them.

Fun fact 2!

It is now widely believed that a mild ice age was averted around 7000bc due to the spread of farming.

sauce?
I believe you im just qurious



next some other senseless idiot is going to tell me that ice hockey was invented in Canada .... go on crazy bloody fools ! bloody dare me !!!!!

number 1

number 2
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#28 - 2014-06-01 23:20:55 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Saving the Planet?Lol


Fighting back climate change is not about saving the planet. It's just about saving our sorry asses.


You can not save the humanity from itself.


Of course. But we're here because of all the ones who fought the good fight.



And now the current and next few generations are going to screw it all up...:P


I was going to post that video too, which states that the planet has gone thru hell in all it's existence, but it's still here and only the dominant species living on the planet at the time changes, so it's inevitable unless some drastic laws are put into place that people will not like, like what was done in china for 30 years and recently lifted:


1 child per family or perhaps encouraging killing yourself once you reach a certain age where you can't work anymore, can't pay taxes like you used to, but the health insurance costs go thru the roof because you get sick much more often, and the unfortunate reality is that for many people they are serious conditions with no cure yet, and they still receive their government pensions just the same, from government in each country getting more broke and in debt, every decade that passes.


I'm sure this will end up fine....P


Implying that the people that are now in their fifties right now didn't screw everything up already.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#29 - 2014-06-02 02:32:15 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:


Implying that the people that are now in their fifties right now didn't screw everything up already.



Just saw the latest cosmos show speaking exactly about this topic funny enough, and in 1958 the annual output of C02 gas from all industries as well as volcanic eruptions and anything else that could contribute to the total was 6 billion tons.


Today, it totals 30 billion tons...A 5 fold increase in just 50 years, so we can imagine what the result will be like if we double the population in the next 50 years and still keep to burning oil, natural gas and coal as main energy providers.



We've gone from 300 milligrams of carbon dioxide, which has been the reference for the last 800 000 years to 450 milligrams since the industrial revolution started in the late 1800's and 600 milligrams is the tipping point where there's no going back, it might reach that mark by the end of this century and the earth gradually turns into another Venus.....Scary **** ladies and gents.



Action needs to be taken on a global scale involving every country, not just localized projects anymore to have enough time to reverse the tend and scientists knew this since the late 1880's, they did the math and 80 years later, NASA( in 1958) confirmed them as being on the money, but short term goals like cheap oil, natural gas and coal still dominated and we lived on a year to year basis even back then, and what would happen 100~200 years later, they didn't care.


Strangely similar attitude to what's happening now but we have much less time to react, even if our technology is more advanced than it was back then.....lobbies, politics, the money it would take for this massive project on a world wide scale, and do we have enough time left to pull this off and change our destiny....Seems we always have to have our backs to the wall to react.
stoicfaux
#30 - 2014-06-02 03:45:25 UTC
It's a self-correcting problem. Or will be once agriculture is affected. For example, oil. A lot of middle east countries subsidize bread for the masses. Farming requires oil. When the oil prices went up, farming cost more, wheat prices went up[1], bread prices went up and countries like Egypt had to cut back on bread subsidies which caused angst amongst the masses.

Last I checked, the US exports 50% of the wheat it grows. When climate change impacts US food production, countries in the Middle East are going to have a difficult time feeding their people. The people revolt, Middle East oil production slows to a crawl. Any industrial country dependent on Middle East oil will suddenly be using less oil.

See, it's a self-correcting problem. Well, unless Canada[1] or Siberia, once they thaw out, become the world's breadbasket(s).


[1] Between 2006 and 2008 average world prices for rice rose by 217%, wheat by 136%, corn by 125% and soybeans by 107%. In late April 2008 rice prices hit 24 cents (U.S.) per U.S. pound, more than doubling the price in just seven months.

[2] The US will annex Canada because of climate change.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#31 - 2014-06-02 03:59:07 UTC
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#32 - 2014-06-02 04:03:51 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
It's a self-correcting problem. Or will be once agriculture is affected. For example, oil. A lot of middle east countries subsidize bread for the masses. Farming requires oil. When the oil prices went up, farming cost more, wheat prices went up[1], bread prices went up and countries like Egypt had to cut back on bread subsidies which caused angst amongst the masses.

Last I checked, the US exports 50% of the wheat it grows. When climate change impacts US food production, countries in the Middle East are going to have a difficult time feeding their people. The people revolt, Middle East oil production slows to a crawl. Any industrial country dependent on Middle East oil will suddenly be using less oil.

See, it's a self-correcting problem. Well, unless Canada[1] or Siberia, once they thaw out, become the world's breadbasket(s).


[1] Between 2006 and 2008 average world prices for rice rose by 217%, wheat by 136%, corn by 125% and soybeans by 107%. In late April 2008 rice prices hit 24 cents (U.S.) per U.S. pound, more than doubling the price in just seven months.

[2] The US will annex Canada because of climate change.




Depends, see with the melting of the artic we also lose something very important since ice reflects most of the sunlight back to space( about 70% or it in fact), and once it turns into water a lot less goes back to space and gets trapped in the atmosphere, so if you combine that with the higher C02 levels increased by 50%, most climatologists are already saying the average temperatures will already rise as of right now by 2*C, and that what were doing right now isn't preventing global warming, but simply avoiding it to get to more extreme situations where the average temps grow by 4*C and where ocean currents get affected which many areas of the globe depend on like the la nina and el nino ocean currents.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#33 - 2014-06-02 04:07:42 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.



And the growth in population and all the trees that have to be cut down to make more farm land available, which also absorb CO2 and release the very oxygen we need to breathe?


A lot of Crops don't generate the air one needs to survive, only the leafy green variety do and not as well as a fully grown trees...
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#34 - 2014-06-02 04:47:44 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.



And the growth in population and all the trees that have to be cut down to make more farm land available, which also absorb CO2 and release the very oxygen we need to breathe?


A lot of Crops don't generate the air one needs to survive, only the leafy green variety do and not as well as a fully grown trees...

See guys, what more proof do you need in this thread. DW and I are at opposite ends of the issue as usual. Really, give that some thought... Smile

I'm looking out my window, I see a farm. No trees were sacrificed to make that farm. In fact, I have about 100 trees on my property, where none were before. My neighborhood has 1000's of trees where none were before. But that farm, how dare them have warmer temperatures to better grow crops, how dare them! Greater yields per acre! it's just inhumanity to man it is. Think of the children!!

Really, get out of the city, dude, there is a whole big world out there where things grow and trees are not automatically ripped down to plant some corn or rice etc. Don't buy into the lies of those filthy rich globalists elitists, they don't give a squat about you, and would prefer famine and war over food and electricity for the 7bil inhabitants of this world... which only around 1bil currently having access to air conditioning even. Many not even a light bulb. I care about them, not stupid hokey religions based on hockey sticks.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#35 - 2014-06-02 05:09:22 UTC
Webvan wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.



And the growth in population and all the trees that have to be cut down to make more farm land available, which also absorb CO2 and release the very oxygen we need to breathe?


A lot of Crops don't generate the air one needs to survive, only the leafy green variety do and not as well as a fully grown trees...

See guys, what more proof do you need in this thread. DW and I are at opposite ends of the issue as usual. Really, give that some thought... Smile

I'm looking out my window, I see a farm. No trees were sacrificed to make that farm. In fact, I have about 100 trees on my property, where none were before. My neighborhood has 1000's of trees where none were before. But that farm, how dare them have warmer temperatures to better grow crops, how dare them! Greater yields per acre! it's just inhumanity to man it is. Think of the children!!

Really, get out of the city, dude, there is a whole big world out there where things grow and trees are not automatically ripped down to plant some corn or rice etc. Don't buy into the lies of those filthy rich globalists elitists, they don't give a squat about you, and would prefer famine and war over food and electricity for the 7bil inhabitants of this world... which only around 1bil currently having access to air conditioning even. Many not even a light bulb. I care about them, not stupid hokey religions based on hockey sticks.



Even the seeds for many types of crops are already genetically modified to grow faster, larger and need less water and also needing less pesticides...One that comes to mind that's already like that are tomato seeds from Monsanto which controls most of the world market, and all in the effort to produce more food at cheaper prices even if it's no longer quite natural anymore....Health implications in the very long run, who knows.


So if we're already doing that at 7+ billion and even then over 1 billion go hungry every day, or don't have clean water or schools or hospitals, you can imagine when we'll be twice as many before the end of the century, even if we exclude the whole pollution and global warming and what's causing it.


We're getting screwed in the long run, and seeing it gradually happen and doing nothing about it on a global scale......Fun fact, at 7+ billion people right now, and if everyone on the planet ate like the average American, we'd need 4 earths right now, so a lot of people aren't eating enough as it is.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#36 - 2014-06-02 05:24:13 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Even the seeds for many types of crops are already genetically modified to grow faster, larger and need less water and also needing less pesticides...

Wrong again. Look over that McDonald's thread here in OOPE, I posted and linked general info how that is a complete failure. If anything, that is just yet another nail in our coffin. Don't suck up the propaganda every salesman shoves into your face, be it Monsanto/EPA, globalists/environmentalists or even SC devs for that matter. They are all just trying to get rich off you, buddy.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-06-02 05:42:01 UTC
Webvan wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Even the seeds for many types of crops are already genetically modified to grow faster, larger and need less water and also needing less pesticides...

Wrong again. Look over that McDonald's thread here in OOPE, I posted and linked general info how that is a complete failure. If anything, that is just yet another nail in our coffin. Don't suck up the propaganda every salesman shoves into your face, be it Monsanto/EPA, globalists/environmentalists or even SC devs for that matter. They are all just trying to get rich off you, buddy.


This man speaks truth. GM crops are a money spinner. The good of humanity is second to the good of the shareholders.

Theres a reason 'organic' crops are more expensive. Its trick advertising to get you thinking its healthier. Thus even more profits!

Man i love crooked capitalism.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#38 - 2014-06-02 05:48:33 UTC
Webvan wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Even the seeds for many types of crops are already genetically modified to grow faster, larger and need less water and also needing less pesticides...

Wrong again. Look over that McDonald's thread here in OOPE, I posted and linked general info how that is a complete failure. If anything, that is just yet another nail in our coffin. Don't suck up the propaganda every salesman shoves into your face, be it Monsanto/EPA, globalists/environmentalists or even SC devs for that matter. They are all just trying to get rich off you, buddy.




I don't follow you here...I read that thread( all 6 pages) and indeed the food there sucks big time......in the rare occasions I do at one( months pass by each time, and only if there's nothing else available close), I only have the angus burgers which actually don't use that crappy special sauce the big macs do and taste like a burger.....I actually once ordered a big mac without that sauce, and it's horrible without it...almost made me throw up.


They do make money for sure, so it's successful in that sense, but i'd rather go to a Wendy's or an A&W for a burger that tastes like a burger, second would be a burger king which is still tolerable if not that great.


So with an ever growing population that demands ever more food, power, water, housing, jobs, transportation, schools, hospitals, goods shipped from one continent to another, generates more pollution as it grows, how is it you you feel we can modify and keep control of the overall situation indefinitely?
Lord Silus Rolven
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-06-02 06:08:08 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:

So with an ever growing population that demands ever more food, power, water, housing, jobs, transportation, schools, hospitals, goods shipped from one continent to another, generates more pollution as it grows, how is it you you feel we can modify and keep control of the overall situation indefinitely?


IDK, but if central planning can't produce a pencil, I wouldn't trust it with any of that stuff.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#40 - 2014-06-02 07:12:35 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
I don't follow you here...
It's failing. The sales pitch they use are the original promises, but since the introduction of these crops the use of herbicides and pesticides goes up 25% each year (guess you didn't bother to check out my links for researching what I claimed). Meanwhile farms are being poisoned with this high usage of chemicals, the ground contaminated, as well as adjacent farms being effected in a lot of ways even though they may themselves be traditional or organic farms. It's just a matter of time before complete failure, but in the meantime they get rich. Famine and war will most likely follow, famine can do that.

Even if global warming/climate change were real, pfff the coffin may be nailed shut long before any real results for that ever actually kicks in, from failing farms which is happening now and for real. BTW, the same climate crud I heard back in the 70's that we were all suppose to be dead from already, long ago, freakin running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Now they screw with the numbers, caught red handed doing that, same chart that HBO guy flashed behind him on the screen in the OP vid, and I linked that vid that someone interested in research may get a start off of. That vid was all whitewash in the OP, only around 50% are fooled from it enough to care at all, not the 75-90%. We can invent numbers for public opinions or actual climate data all day long, they certainly did for the climate data already. It's good business I guess, lots of money to be made. Monsanto, green energy, environmental regulation, book deals, movies, talk circuits, research grants etc etc etc. Big paydays to be hads.

I'm in it for the money

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