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NPC escorts for hire ?

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DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#81 - 2014-06-01 17:05:05 UTC
Saisin wrote:
I think this is an interesting idea...

Given that it is already possible to deploy an ESS within an anomaly and have the NPC protect it, without even having to pay them to do so, I can see such NPC service readily accepted by the community that already accepts this for ESS...

Isn't it?


So we are three or four. I thank you for at least be open to discus the idea.

What did you say about CODE?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#82 - 2014-06-01 17:06:30 UTC
Cypherous wrote:
DHuncan wrote:
11756 likes to this dude comments is not proof enaugh?

Man read the post.


Tippia has 22k likes and tells you to hire players, you realise that likes dont mean much as those are total across all forum posts, i could make a thread about bacon and get likes on the forum :P


To be fair, it is bacon.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-06-01 17:08:23 UTC
Seems highly doubtful CCP would take such a big pat of their game that players can do and give it over to AI. NPC escorts wouldn't be very effective anyway.

OP you could start a jamming escort service and fill that need yourself... Maybe you could play Bob Marley's song "jammin' " to get people in the mood.



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EvE quick reference pdf

EvE links
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#84 - 2014-06-01 17:10:40 UTC
DHuncan wrote:


As far as hiring mercenaries if you read the entire post you will find good reasons not to do so.


Those are not good reasons.

Mercs get their pay by doing the job, it is not in their interest to take payment and then gank the employer. What you want is for CCP to protect you, this wont be happening. This is an MMO not a single player game, if you want protection either get into or form a corp or hire some mercs.
DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#85 - 2014-06-01 17:20:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
DHuncan wrote:


As far as hiring mercenaries if you read the entire post you will find good reasons not to do so.


Those are not good reasons.

Mercs get their pay by doing the job, it is not in their interest to take payment and then gank the employer. What you want is for CCP to protect you, this wont be happening. This is an MMO not a single player game, if you want protection either get into or form a corp or hire some mercs.

No, mercs will not do that. No, I dont want ccp to protect me, it is you who want ccp to protect you and keep using brainless bumpers and skilless minner gankers just cause is very easy -efortless-lazy- to find that sort of players.

I am talking about a service I, or you, or anyone who has worked hard for LPs deserve in order to deffend from massive attaks. I have reppeated it so many times and in so many ways that I am sure everyone can understand the point. I dont mean share it nor agree, but blur it or distortion it is not possible for a missunderstanding anymore. I know the Goons and the Tears and all those would lose the status of big guys and I get why you will opose. But what about the rest? What about a significant part of the New Eden community? Lets wait and see.

What did you say about CODE?
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2014-06-01 17:25:53 UTC
DHuncan wrote:

No, mercs will not do that. No, I dont want ccp to protect me, it is you who want ccp to protect you and keep using brainless bumpers and skilless minner gankers just cause is very easy -efortless-lazy- to find that sort of players.

I am talking about a service I, or you, or anyone who has worked hard for LPs deserve in order to deffend from massive attaks. I have reppeated it so many times and in so many ways that I am sure everyone can understand the point. I dont mean share it nor agree, but blur it or distortion it is not possible for a missunderstanding anymore. I know the Goons and the Tears and all those would lose the status of big guys and I get why you will opose. But what about the rest? What about a significant part of the New Eden community? Lets wait and see.


There is also the in-universe logical consistency viewpoint.

There is a reason that mercenary armies never became a big thing in the real world..

If you hire player mercs, you may be able to find mercs who actively dislike the people who war dec'd you (for whatever reason), and many of them view it as a chance to pvp with their costs being largely covered, profit may just be a bonus.

In universe, NPC mercs would not really have much interest in taking losses on your behalf.

Real world mercenary armies had a reputation for bailing at the first sign of trouble. Can't win a battle without taking losses? Then they wouldn't fight in the battle. Italian renaissance era mercenary armies were notorious for that. When they fought other mercenary units, there were almost no casualties, as whoever would most likely lose would concede the field after a bit of light skirmishing.

And the CFC would be able to hire more mercs that you could imagine... I couldn't see your suggested change benefiting anyone more, honestly.

In short, it wouldn't have the effect you want. Even if it did, it would still not be a good idea.
DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#87 - 2014-06-01 17:34:40 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
DHuncan wrote:

No, mercs will not do that. No, I dont want ccp to protect me, it is you who want ccp to protect you and keep using brainless bumpers and skilless minner gankers just cause is very easy -efortless-lazy- to find that sort of players.

I am talking about a service I, or you, or anyone who has worked hard for LPs deserve in order to deffend from massive attaks. I have reppeated it so many times and in so many ways that I am sure everyone can understand the point. I dont mean share it nor agree, but blur it or distortion it is not possible for a missunderstanding anymore. I know the Goons and the Tears and all those would lose the status of big guys and I get why you will opose. But what about the rest? What about a significant part of the New Eden community? Lets wait and see.


There is also the in-universe logical consistency viewpoint.

There is a reason that mercenary armies never became a big thing in the real world..

If you hire player mercs, you may be able to find mercs who actively dislike the people who war dec'd you (for whatever reason), and many of them view it as a chance to pvp with their costs being largely covered, profit may just be a bonus.

In universe, NPC mercs would not really have much interest in taking losses on your behalf.

Real world mercenary armies had a reputation for bailing at the first sign of trouble. Can't win a battle without taking losses? Then they wouldn't fight in the battle. Italian renaissance era mercenary armies were notorious for that. When they fought other mercenary units, there were almost no casualties, as whoever would most likely lose would concede the field after a bit of light skirmishing.

And the CFC would be able to hire more mercs that you could imagine... I couldn't see your suggested change benefiting anyone more, honestly.

In short, it wouldn't have the effect you want. Even if it did, it would still not be a good idea.


Yes, the fact mercenaries will take not loses when already have the isk in their pokets is one of my points to discard them NPCs have no reassons they are programed so they will fight just because they are programmed for that.

It is true some will see a war as a chance to engage with those they want -for whatever reasson- to fight.

Real world mercenaries are not a great asset, drones started to be in 21st century.

So why after all this summary you come to the conclusion of AI would not be effective? I actually with same premises come to the other way around result.

What did you say about CODE?
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2014-06-01 17:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassandra Aurilien
DHuncan wrote:


Yes, the fact mercenaries will take not loses when already have the isk in their pokets is one of my points to discard them NPCs have no reassons they are programed so they will fight just because they are programmed for that.

It is true some will see a war as a chance to engage with those they want -for whatever reasson- to fight.

Real world mercenaries are not a great asset, drones started to be in 21st century.

So why after all this summary you come to the conclusion of AI would not be effective? I actually with same premises come to the other way around result.


You already have drones.

If you'd have NPC mercs, they should be programmed to behave in the exactly the way that you think all player mercs would behave. If anything, they would be less reliable, as they would be in it purely for the profit, unlike the players, who very well may be in it purely for the pvp.

And, most importantly, it doesn't fit the player sandbox of EVE. The NPCs are background. In sandbox games which have more active NPC's (single player, mostly), the NPC's react to you a lot more than you would like, they hold grudges, and are programmed to take active action against threats. In that sort of game, you'd have Guristas hit squads after you for running missions.

EVE is not that sort of game.
DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#89 - 2014-06-01 17:53:09 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
DHuncan wrote:


Yes, the fact mercenaries will take not loses when already have the isk in their pokets is one of my points to discard them NPCs have no reassons they are programed so they will fight just because they are programmed for that.

It is true some will see a war as a chance to engage with those they want -for whatever reasson- to fight.

Real world mercenaries are not a great asset, drones started to be in 21st century.

So why after all this summary you come to the conclusion of AI would not be effective? I actually with same premises come to the other way around result.


You already have drones.

If you'd have NPC mercs, they should be programmed to behave in the exactly the way that you think all player mercs would behave. If anything, they would be less reliable, as they would be in it purely for the profit, unlike the players, who very well may be in it purely for the pvp.

And, most importantly, it doesn't fit the player sandbox of EVE. The NPCs are background. In sandbox games which have more active NPC's (single player, mostly), the NPC's react to you a lot more than you would like, they hold grudges, and are programmed to take active action against threats. In that sort of game, you'd have Guristas hit squads after you for running missions.

EVE is not that sort of game.


No, I dont think AI escorts would behave the same as mercs. More like drones, agresive mode, pasive mode, protect, asist sort of features or like POS deffenses.

I desagree NPCs are just background and definitely not what should be. Anything in New Eden should behave in as realistic way as possible.

Because of this realism I understand they should be corruptible too as they represent humans. I get what you say. Well they dont need to be designed like that. More like up to BS size drones independent from your ship drone capacity. Autonomous. Just for hire.

What did you say about CODE?
DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#90 - 2014-06-01 17:56:23 UTC
Oh CCP and imagine the posibilities if we can hire limitless armies of those with isk. I bet PLEX sale would increase as many players would go straight to form their armies of revenge. Big smile Money CCP, money for you Twisted

What did you say about CODE?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#91 - 2014-06-01 17:59:08 UTC
DHuncan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
DHuncan wrote:


As far as hiring mercenaries if you read the entire post you will find good reasons not to do so.


Those are not good reasons.

Mercs get their pay by doing the job, it is not in their interest to take payment and then gank the employer. What you want is for CCP to protect you, this wont be happening. This is an MMO not a single player game, if you want protection either get into or form a corp or hire some mercs.

No, mercs will not do that. No, I dont want ccp to protect me, it is you who want ccp to protect you and keep using brainless bumpers and skilless minner gankers just cause is very easy -efortless-lazy- to find that sort of players.

I am talking about a service I, or you, or anyone who has worked hard for LPs deserve in order to deffend from massive attaks. I have reppeated it so many times and in so many ways that I am sure everyone can understand the point. I dont mean share it nor agree, but blur it or distortion it is not possible for a missunderstanding anymore. I know the Goons and the Tears and all those would lose the status of big guys and I get why you will opose. But what about the rest? What about a significant part of the New Eden community? Lets wait and see.


We would still kill you.

Now, Im not the one here asking for CCP to get the server to protect them. Hell, most the time we are open to attack from everyone what with our not bothering to fix our -10 sec status, so lets not bullship about gankers wanting protection from CCP. Mercs cannot get paid if they get a reputation for betraying their contractors, their entire income depends upon them fulfilling their contracts so no, a good merc group will not stab you in the back.

Now, lets look at this service of yours and how I, a Goon, can twist it to my own ends. Firstly, I can use them to provide protection from wartargets, I can also use them when ganking as both protection and as more firepower. I can also use them in fleets, imagine the side of blob we can muster with every pilot getting a protection detail. Jita undock would be stuffed with NPC ships protecting us as we bait, steal bail and bump everything undocking. Then we have the TiDi we can cause. After this we move our logistics, which we can now much more easily protect from wartargets.

Its a terrible idea, you will not get your single player game in this multiplayer game. If you want a fleet you get the players to do it either via a corp or by getting mercs.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#92 - 2014-06-01 18:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
DHuncan wrote:

So we are three or four. I thank you for at least be open to discus the idea.


I do agree with you and would not hire a merc corp myself either, as they would most likely end up destroying my assets with little risk, and I do not think there is honor amongst Eve Smile **

To be clear I am pushing against using NPCs for defending players assets,like the ESS. Like others have mentioned, opening up hiring NPC goes against a player driven interaction, but also mothing prevent bigger groups with more money to do it also.

Now with your idea as a starting point, I would suggest allowing players to hiring NPC convoys.... We know that convoys are popping up in belts here and there, and are always an interesting target. If you were to commit some of your assets to such a convoy, and simply have you follow/escort that convoy, this would create some interesting game outlets beyond belts.

The NPCs would not defend you per se, but you would trust some of your assets to them for a fee... There could be some kind of limits to this use, to avoid replacing PC run transport services.

** unless enforced by superior numbers and wallets

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DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#93 - 2014-06-01 18:45:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
DHuncan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
DHuncan wrote:


As far as hiring mercenaries if you read the entire post you will find good reasons not to do so.


Those are not good reasons.

Mercs get their pay by doing the job, it is not in their interest to take payment and then gank the employer. What you want is for CCP to protect you, this wont be happening. This is an MMO not a single player game, if you want protection either get into or form a corp or hire some mercs.

No, mercs will not do that. No, I dont want ccp to protect me, it is you who want ccp to protect you and keep using brainless bumpers and skilless minner gankers just cause is very easy -efortless-lazy- to find that sort of players.

I am talking about a service I, or you, or anyone who has worked hard for LPs deserve in order to deffend from massive attaks. I have reppeated it so many times and in so many ways that I am sure everyone can understand the point. I dont mean share it nor agree, but blur it or distortion it is not possible for a missunderstanding anymore. I know the Goons and the Tears and all those would lose the status of big guys and I get why you will opose. But what about the rest? What about a significant part of the New Eden community? Lets wait and see.


We would still kill you.

Now, Im not the one here asking for CCP to get the server to protect them. Hell, most the time we are open to attack from everyone what with our not bothering to fix our -10 sec status, so lets not bullship about gankers wanting protection from CCP. Mercs cannot get paid if they get a reputation for betraying their contractors, their entire income depends upon them fulfilling their contracts so no, a good merc group will not stab you in the back.

Now, lets look at this service of yours and how I, a Goon, can twist it to my own ends. Firstly, I can use them to provide protection from wartargets, I can also use them when ganking as both protection and as more firepower. I can also use them in fleets, imagine the side of blob we can muster with every pilot getting a protection detail. Jita undock would be stuffed with NPC ships protecting us as we bait, steal bail and bump everything undocking. Then we have the TiDi we can cause. After this we move our logistics, which we can now much more easily protect from wartargets.

Its a terrible idea, you will not get your single player game in this multiplayer game. If you want a fleet you get the players to do it either via a corp or by getting mercs.


Two things here:

1st you dont understand what I say or prefer to distortion it to make it sound toatlly diferent.

2nd when you say 'we' it really represents so little of you that it has nothing to to with when I say 'we'. Wn you belong to a mass that has 700 players and your CEO dont even know who the hell are you, the achievements you say 'we did' actually have nothing to do with you.

What did you say about CODE?
DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#94 - 2014-06-01 18:59:08 UTC
Saisin wrote:
DHuncan wrote:

So we are three or four. I thank you for at least be open to discus the idea.


I do agree with you and would not hire a merc corp myself either, as they would most likely end up destroying my assets with little risk, and I do not think there is honor amongst Eve Smile **

To be clear I am pushing against using NPCs for defending players assets,like the ESS. Like others have mentioned, opening up hiring NPC goes against a player driven interaction, but also mothing prevent bigger groups with more money to do it also.

Now with your idea as a starting point, I would suggest allowing players to hiring NPC convoys.... We know that convoys are popping up in belts here and there, and are always an interesting target. If you were to commit some of your assets to such a convoy, and simply have you follow/escort that convoy, this would create some interesting game outlets beyond belts.

The NPCs would not defend you per se, but you would trust some of your assets to them for a fee... There could be some kind of limits to this use, to avoid replacing PC run transport services.

** unless enforced by superior numbers and wallets


I like the idea ov the convoy very much. Now this AI transport ships would you allow them to spawn just a few drones as part of theyr featres? Ok we are talking about the many unexplored things yet to be done.

I bet this would be a star service.

What did you say about CODE?
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#95 - 2014-06-01 19:10:27 UTC
Saisin wrote:

...Now with your idea as a starting point, I would suggest allowing players to hiring NPC convoys.... We know that convoys are popping up in belts here and there, and are always an interesting target. If you were to commit some of your assets to such a convoy, and simply have you follow/escort that convoy, this would create some interesting game outlets beyond belts.

The NPCs would not defend you per se, but you would trust some of your assets to them for a fee... There could be some kind of limits to this use, to avoid replacing PC run transport services...


Did someone say convoy? We got ourselves a convoy!

but...as you know...If you want to pay a fee to have your assets hauled you can do that now. Red Frog Freight and PushX in highsec, Black Frog in lo / null. Established player groups that would be glad to assist you in any asset-moving-for-hire you need. How would EVE benefit by having NPCs do exactly what player groups are doing now?

Or...I will be happy to convoy with you to move anything you want for a very reasonable fee (has to be over a billion isk worth of assets to be worth my...um...time, though Smile What? My mother trusts me...you wouldn't say anything against my mother, would you?)



EvE security zones in pictures

EvE quick reference pdf

EvE links
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2014-06-01 19:11:21 UTC
DHuncan wrote:




2nd when you say 'we' it really represents so little of you that it has nothing to to with when I say 'we'. Wn you belong to a mass that has 700 players and your CEO dont even know who the hell are you, the achievements you say 'we did' actually have nothing to do with you.


You may want to do a little homework on that statement.
DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#97 - 2014-06-01 19:27:16 UTC
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:
Saisin wrote:

...Now with your idea as a starting point, I would suggest allowing players to hiring NPC convoys.... We know that convoys are popping up in belts here and there, and are always an interesting target. If you were to commit some of your assets to such a convoy, and simply have you follow/escort that convoy, this would create some interesting game outlets beyond belts.

The NPCs would not defend you per se, but you would trust some of your assets to them for a fee... There could be some kind of limits to this use, to avoid replacing PC run transport services...


Did someone say convoy? We got ourselves a convoy!

but...as you know...If you want to pay a fee to have your assets hauled you can do that now. Red Frog Freight and PushX in highsec, Black Frog in lo / null. Established player groups that would be glad to assist you in any asset-moving-for-hire you need. How would EVE benefit by having NPCs do exactly what player groups are doing now?

Or...I will be happy to convoy with you to move anything you want for a very reasonable fee (has to be over a billion isk worth of assets to be worth my...um...time, though Smile What? My mother trusts me...you wouldn't say anything against my mother, would you?)





Do youpay colateral?

What did you say about CODE?
DHuncan
Long John Silver.
#98 - 2014-06-01 19:28:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
DHuncan wrote:




2nd when you say 'we' it really represents so little of you that it has nothing to to with when I say 'we'. Wn you belong to a mass that has 700 players and your CEO dont even know who the hell are you, the achievements you say 'we did' actually have nothing to do with you.


You may want to do a little homework on that statement.


Oh you are 647? 1259? Yes my whole point is wrong. Roll

What did you say about CODE?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#99 - 2014-06-01 19:41:18 UTC
DHuncan wrote:


Oh you are 647? 1259? Yes my whole point is wrong. Roll


The CFC has tens of thousands of pilots and they all know my nameBlink
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2014-06-01 19:41:18 UTC
DHuncan wrote:
The thing is that some people preffer to stay in a small friendly corporation instead of joining a big or even a huge one. This is an obvious disadvantage ...


I'm sorry, it's unclear to me what this "obvious disadvantage" is...

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

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