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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Improve Hi Sec Wars

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Namdor
#161 - 2014-05-30 22:14:52 UTC
I've been suspect-baiting mission runners lately and I would be glad to see neutral logi go away just so people are more willing to engage me.

Rant after rant about how I'm just trying to get them to engage so I can warp my alt in is getting tiresome.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#162 - 2014-05-30 22:16:32 UTC
- The recent implementation of all those systems is relevant.

- The comparison is there. Theres more than one side to what ur trying to argue and yes it can extend to hauling. Doesnt matter if u dnt like it.

- Its an opinion. Just like u thinking the opposite is opinion. If it were possible to implement a system where friends and allies could intervene with offensive mods without any chance of players exploiting it to gank randoms, I sincerely believe it would be attractive. It would work both ways u realise. And the op and u would get ur wish where u can shoot possible logi's, related miners and pos stations.

So if it were possible, whats not to like??

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#163 - 2014-05-30 22:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Velenia Ankletickler wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:


If the pilot is in the deccing Corp he is at less risk than a neut logi pilot. Did u not know in Corp logi does not go suspect??


Being able to choose when to turn on your suspect flag and when not to, is far less risk than being a war target.

If it wasn't, there wouldn't be anyone hiding in NPC corps.


No the main reason of being in npc corps is to not be detected before hand. Thats why they try to wait outside system or beyond d-scan range.

But when they are in Corp and known about, they are on watch list and locates are ran on them before they can draw the enemy into a fight they cannot win

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#164 - 2014-05-30 22:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Daichi Yamato wrote:
- The recent implementation of all those systems is relevant.

- The comparison is there. Theres more than one side to what ur trying to argue and yes it can extend to hauling. Doesnt matter if u dnt like it.

- Its an opinion. Just like u thinking the opposite is opinion. If it were possible to implement a system where friends and allies could intervene with offensive mods without any chance of players exploiting it to gank randoms, I sincerely believe it would be attractive. It would work both ways u realise. And the op and u would get ur wish where u can shoot possible logi's, related miners and pos stations.

So if it were possible, whats not to like??


Yes, I suppose if you just want to consider any arbitrary statement as being equally valid simply because someone said it, you certainly have a point. Roll

Back in reality, you still can't conclusively assert that you've definitively determined to know their mind on any arbitrary topic.

I mean, not without looking like an idiot, anyway. I guess there's nothing stopping you from actually making the claim.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#165 - 2014-05-30 22:25:57 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
- The recent implementation of all those systems is relevant.

- The comparison is there. Theres more than one side to what ur trying to argue and yes it can extend to hauling. Doesnt matter if u dnt like it.

- Its an opinion. Just like u thinking the opposite is opinion. If it were possible to implement a system where friends and allies could intervene with offensive mods without any chance of players exploiting it to gank randoms, I sincerely believe it would be attractive. It would work both ways u realise. And the op and u would get ur wish where u can shoot possible logi's, related miners and pos stations.

So if it were possible, whats not to like??


Yes, I suppose if you just want to consider any arbitrary statement as being equally valid simply because someone said it, you certainly have a point. Roll

Back in reality, you still can't conclusively assert that you've definitively determined to know their mind on any arbitrary topic.

I mean, not without looking like an idiot, anyway. I guess there's nothing stopping you from actually making the claim.


And yet it has more consistency with the current system and aligns with ccp's recent and repeated design choices and even ur AND the ops desires.

The only issue is that it can be exploited to attack randoms and only go suspect for it.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#166 - 2014-05-30 22:28:55 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:


And yet it has more consistency with the current system and aligns with ccp's recent and repeated design choices and even ur AND the ops desires.

The only issue is that it can be exploited to attack randoms and only go suspect for it.


So basically, except for the part where it's entirely unworkable at a fundamental level, it's a fantastic idea!

And if it weren't for gravity, I could flap my wings and fly.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#167 - 2014-05-30 22:35:40 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:


And yet it has more consistency with the current system and aligns with ccp's recent and repeated design choices and even ur AND the ops desires.

The only issue is that it can be exploited to attack randoms and only go suspect for it.


So basically, except for the part where it's entirely unworkable at a fundamental level, it's a fantastic idea!

And if it weren't for gravity, I could flap my wings and fly.


Thats exactly what I said. And ur calling me an idiot.

Fact remains, Its clearly the intention of ccp that players can assist their allies in underhanded ways, logi and boosts being two viable ways. Offensive mods not being viable for obvious reasons. But if it could be done, ud all get what u want.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#168 - 2014-05-30 22:39:01 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Daichi Yamato wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:


And yet it has more consistency with the current system and aligns with ccp's recent and repeated design choices and even ur AND the ops desires.

The only issue is that it can be exploited to attack randoms and only go suspect for it.


So basically, except for the part where it's entirely unworkable at a fundamental level, it's a fantastic idea!

And if it weren't for gravity, I could flap my wings and fly.


Thats exactly what I said. And ur calling me an idiot.

Fact remains, Its clearly the intention of ccp that players can assist their allies in underhanded ways, logi and boosts being two viable ways. Offensive mods not being viable for obvious reasons. But if it could be done, ud all get what u want.


Ah, here we go with the mindreading and bizarre belief that nothing ever changes, again. Round and round we go. Roll

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#169 - 2014-05-30 22:43:38 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:


And yet it has more consistency with the current system and aligns with ccp's recent and repeated design choices and even ur AND the ops desires.

The only issue is that it can be exploited to attack randoms and only go suspect for it.


So basically, except for the part where it's entirely unworkable at a fundamental level, it's a fantastic idea!

And if it weren't for gravity, I could flap my wings and fly.


Thats exactly what I said. And ur calling me an idiot.

Fact remains, Its clearly the intention of ccp that players can assist their allies in underhanded ways, logi and boosts being two viable ways. Offensive mods not being viable for obvious reasons. But if it could be done, ud all get what u want.


Ah, here we go with the mindreading and bizarre belief that nothing every changes, again. Round and round we go. Roll


U dnt think the recent design decisions are relevant, I think ur being obtuse. Ur also disgustingly condescending.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#170 - 2014-05-30 22:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Daichi Yamato wrote:


U dnt think the recent design decisions are relevant, I think ur being obtuse.


That's because your argument wasn't logically sound.

Recent design decision: When you hack an exploration site, the loot goes flying into space!

If we utilized your "logic", a few weeks ago we could have said, "Well this is obviously what they want and that's that!" and shrugged our shoulders uselessly because there was nothing for it. Loot spew was obviously what CCP wanted, so why even question it? Roll

Except, we would have been wrong, because even MORE recently, they decided that mechanic was horse **** and it's time to change it.

Thus, we have demonstrated that we CANNOT conclusively assert to know CCP's mind based merely on past changes. Their mind is subject to change, and frequently does, yet you persist in claiming to be possessed of borderline omniscience regarding their will, both present and future. It's ******* stupid.


Quote:
Ur also disgustingly condescending.


It's a good thing you're so tough, then.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#171 - 2014-05-30 23:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Logi and how it works with decs has been around for years and has been a controversial topic. Despite numerous and recent opportunities to make it concordable ccp have decided not to.

It is then in no way bizarre to infer that this would suggest that ccp are happy with how it is. Especially when considering how easy it would be to change like u say. It is in fact bizarre to believe that, despite all this, things are going to change.

U can say ud like change and u can make ur case. But the belief that ccp are fine with the current system because of the above is very much logical and a viable diacussion point for this thread.


Edit- and with loots spew ccp are trying an entirely new mechanic. New features are not uncommonly tweaked or altered shortly after introduction. Incursions were the same.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#172 - 2014-05-30 23:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Logi and how it works with decs has been around for years and has been a controversial topic. Despite numerous and recent opportunities to make it concordable ccp have decided not to.

It is then in no way bizarre to infer that this would suggest that ccp are happy with how it is. Especially when considering how easy it would be to change like u say. It is in fact bizarre to believe that, despite all this, things are going to change.

U can say ud like change and u can make ur case. But the belief that ccp are fine with the current system because of the above is very much logical and a viable diacussion point for this thread.


Actually, at most all you can refer to that is that their famously soft-touch re: player interaction is still present, and that's a good thing.

And "easy" re: difficulty and "easy" re: labor are entirely different. There wouldn't be any inherent difficulty, that I'm aware of, in making such a change - that doesn't mean it wouldn't be labor intensive, and it doesn't make your mind reading any less fallacious. There is such a thing as "Good enough, for now" in a prioritization queue.

Quick, tell us what they're going to do three patches from now! Would love to start planning out my market orders now. Lol

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#173 - 2014-05-30 23:11:33 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#174 - 2014-05-30 23:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Logi and how it works with decs has been around for years and has been a controversial topic. Despite numerous and recent opportunities to make it concordable ccp have decided not to.

It is then in no way bizarre to infer that this would suggest that ccp are happy with how it is. Especially when considering how easy it would be to change like u say. It is in fact bizarre to believe that, despite all this, things are going to change.

U can say ud like change and u can make ur case. But the belief that ccp are fine with the current system because of the above is very much logical and a viable diacussion point for this thread.


Actually, at most all you can refer to that is that their famously soft-touch re: player interaction is still present, and that's a good thing.

And "easy" re: difficulty and "easy" re: labor are entirely different. There wouldn't be any inherent difficulty, that I'm aware of, in making such a change - that doesn't mean it wouldn't be labor intensive, and it doesn't make your mind reading any less fallacious. There is such a thing as "Good enough, for now" in a prioritization queue.

Quick, tell us what they're going to do three patches from now! Would love to start planning out my market orders now. Lol


Well anyone who saw fanfest can make suggestions as to what the next three expansions will hold and it in no way be a bizarre belief.

- Ship rebalance and making things pretty
- industry changes
- more making things pretty more rebalancing.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Velenia Ankletickler
Silverflames
#175 - 2014-05-31 06:53:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Velenia Ankletickler
Well, rereading this thread is really just disheartening.

What do hi sec wars do?

Positive:
1: Provide a mechanic to take out PoS and POCO that's in the way

Negative:
2: Makes it a stupid thing to be in a player corp for the majority of the players in the game.

Under the assumption that player corps is intended to be a good thing, the mechanic must be said to just be completely broken at this point.
Sato Page
Auctor Illuminatas Infinitum
#176 - 2014-05-31 09:43:16 UTC
Think neut logi is unfair? Get your own neut logi.

Dinsdale Pirannha for [u]CEO [/u]of [u]CCP[/u]
Velenia Ankletickler
Silverflames
#177 - 2014-05-31 09:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Velenia Ankletickler
Sato Page wrote:
Think neut logi is unfair? Get your own neut logi.


Yet another "war decs says, don't be in player corp"-post.

And no I don't think it is unfair, I think it is stupid, against the idea of the game and in conflict with the rest of the crime rules.

Getting my own changes neither of these.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#178 - 2014-05-31 11:34:05 UTC
Velenia Ankletickler wrote:
Well, rereading this thread is really just disheartening.

What do hi sec wars do?

Positive:
1: Provide a mechanic to take out PoS and POCO that's in the way

Negative:
2: Makes it a stupid thing to be in a player corp for the majority of the players in the game.

Under the assumption that player corps is intended to be a good thing, the mechanic must be said to just be completely broken at this point.


like ppl have said, its only stupid to be in a player corp if ur unable or unwilling to defend urself and ur stuff.

join a corp like RvB or eve uni and see what war decs are like for them.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Velenia Ankletickler
Silverflames
#179 - 2014-05-31 13:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Velenia Ankletickler
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Velenia Ankletickler wrote:
Well, rereading this thread is really just disheartening.

What do hi sec wars do?

Positive:
1: Provide a mechanic to take out PoS and POCO that's in the way

Negative:
2: Makes it a stupid thing to be in a player corp for the majority of the players in the game.

Under the assumption that player corps is intended to be a good thing, the mechanic must be said to just be completely broken at this point.


like ppl have said, its only stupid to be in a player corp if ur unable or unwilling to defend urself and ur stuff.

join a corp like RvB or eve uni and see what war decs are like for them.

Your post is completely irrelevant to the quote.

How does what corp I am in change, what the war mechanic does for the game in general?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#180 - 2014-05-31 13:50:56 UTC
Velenia Ankletickler wrote:


I don't see you mention war decs doing anything positive for any of these corps?


they both use wars to teach new players about PvP combat and have fun.

i repeatedly recommend them to any new player and especially players who think war decs are terrible. They can both probably show u some ways to deal with neut logi if u join up.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs