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Drone Regions
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bornaa
GRiD.
#101 - 2011-11-21 15:03:18 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Didn't see anyone posting this yet so here goes:

CCP Spitfire wrote:
Как и обещал, выкладываю краткую выжимку темы про возможные пути улучшения дрон-регионов на английском языке; копия была отправлена непосредственно CCP Greyscale. Так как ответы от разработчиков в этой теме также будут на английском, обсуждение, думаю, имеет смысл продолжать в предыдущей теме.

---

As promised, here is a brief summary of the "Drone regions improvement suggestions" thread in the Russian General Discussion forum section.

Background

Perceived disparity of income in drone regions compared to the “bounty” null-sec:

  • Income in the drone regions is lower than in other null-sec (especially after the Drone Horde fixes and buffs of other anomalies)
  • “Gunmining” makes looting mandatory => need to operate extra accounts
  • Lack of exploration sites (ladar/magnetometric/etc.)

    • Solutions

  • Replace alloys with bounties comparable to other null-sec regions; at the same time, introduce other means for mineral compression [so that the existing player-built infrastructure is not wasted]
  • Replace alloys with tags / other sellable items (similar to overseer effects) / BPCs for drone ships and equipment [introduction of CONCORD-purchasable drone drops can be role-played accordingly]
  • Reduce the ratio of high-end minerals in the drone alloys [so that there is less dependency on drone regions for all minerals]
  • Introduce faction / officer drone modules [so that there is more diversity and/or income streams]
  • Introduce [mineral] convoys in drone regions [to counterbalance the lack of mineral supply if the alloys are changed to bounties]
  • Introduce drone exploration sites (ladar/magnetometric/etc.) [so that there is more diversity and/or income streams]
  • Increase the volume of alloys to be consistent with regular mining [so that mining does not become obsolete]
  • Add non-drone anomalies to drone regions (similar to drone anomalies in the rest of null-sec) [so that there is more diversity and/or income streams]
  • Shuffle the drone regions around the map instead of clustering them all together [so that one group does not control the majority of the mineral supply]
  • Replace alloys with T2 salvage or augmented drone components [so that the players can still contribute to the economy and get reasonable income]
  • Make the “fast-track” Drone Horde completion legal, essentially keeping the current status quo (while moving the escalation triggers to 10/10 complexes onto other anomalies) [so that the players are not penalized with reduced income]
  • Boost other high-end drone anomalies (Drone Patrols) [so that the players are not penalized with reduced income]
  • Add more drone/fighter/FB modifications to the game that would utilize drone components and create unique incentives in the drone regions [so that drone regions still produce something of considerable demand]
  • Differentiate drone loot depending on the means used to destroy the rogue drone (killing w/ blasters or thermal missiles yield alloys, killing w/ projectiles or explosive/kinetic weapons yield modules, lasers or EM missiles yield drone components)


Potential Issues

If the alloys will be replaced with bounties, will the following game elements be featured?


  • Drone NPC regions
  • Faction items
  • Officers


Won’t the removal of alloys create a massive mineral deficit in the game; in the same vein, addition of drone bounties may lead to a massive inflation spike? In addition, PVE in drone regions is considered to be less prone to botting compared to other null-sec regions

General Ideas and Feedback

  • Introduce more randomness to anomalies (% chance for extra spawns, other faction encounters within a given anomaly, etc. )
  • Botting is obviously perceived as a serious issue with null-sec in general
  • More ISK sinks are needed – e.g. introduce supercapital maintenance costs, etc.
  • Make regions more diverse (unique loot, etc.) without creating a dependency of the whole game on any one region







when did CCP Spitfire wrote that???
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Razin
The Scope
#102 - 2011-11-21 15:08:48 UTC
bornaa wrote:


when did CCP Spitfire wrote that???


CCP Spitfire: Drone regions improvement suggestions
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2011-11-21 15:13:29 UTC
Freyya wrote:
dischordia wrote:

the drone parts come from the "commander" spawns and tbh you cant GIVE them away as they are worth fudge all due to the stuff they make sucking so bad and costing so damn much


Well it could then be a good incentive to make it less suck, distribute drone parts more to make it cost less and uhmmm....uhmmm. EPA?No... Damn, can't remember the 3rd thing, sorry.....oops.

drone parts are for Augmented and Integrated versions of drones.
Problem is: both integrated and augmented versions aren't much better that their T1 or T2 counterpart. The most problems are: combined damage type and price.
- Price means no one will use it for PVP
- combined damage type makes this drone less desirable for PVE (in most cases you want 1 damage type for 1 purpose)

Price for those drones are high because of BPC (which is really rare).

Personally i have lots of drone parts got from T2 drones. And i can't sell it (size is really bigger than profit i can make so it doesn't worth time and effort).

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#104 - 2011-11-21 15:36:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk MacGirk
And you again don't see a problem?
1 capital combat-support ship and 1 salvager mine more then 1 capital mining-support ship and 2 T2 mining ships...

And we are talking about mining here





Crucis -

No, we are not talking about mining here. Miners are bitching they don't get paid enough, but what we are really talking about here is how to best supply the Eve mineral market with adequate supplies of minerals. Without a complete and radical change to the method and amounts that miners can achieve, you cannot simply toss out alloys.

The short-term thought process of "just get rid of alloys so miners can earn more isk" is exactly what causes long term negative effects for the entire game. It is changes like these that CCP has made far too often. Rebalancing one area to help another that ends up unbalancing other areas of the game in the process. The point is to think things out before making wholesale changes in the game that have been in place for more than 4 years.

I say it again - if you make mining the sole source of minerals in the game, then remove all ores from hisec. Too profitable for hisec.
Malakai Draevyn
Internet SpaceShips Is Serious Business
#105 - 2011-11-21 15:54:58 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:

I say it again - if you make mining the sole source of minerals in the game, then remove all ores from hisec. Too profitable for hisec.


Surely to do this would require the wholesale removal of the ability to reprocess modules / ships / whatever into minerals as well ? I know that relatively speaking the amount of minerals that can be produced from chaining L4 missions isn't as great as that of the Drone Alloys or mining directly, but it does add up in the end....
Avila Cracko
#106 - 2011-11-21 16:01:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:



And you again don't see a problem?
1 capital combat-support ship and 1 salvager mine more then 1 capital mining-support ship and 2 T2 mining ships... Ugh

And we are talking about mining here



SIGNED WITH CAPITAL LETTERS!!!

maybe numbers are a little worse then that... but... you get a point...

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#107 - 2011-11-21 16:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk MacGirk
Malakai Draevyn wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:

I say it again - if you make mining the sole source of minerals in the game, then remove all ores from hisec. Too profitable for hisec.


Surely to do this would require the wholesale removal of the ability to reprocess modules / ships / whatever into minerals as well ? I know that relatively speaking the amount of minerals that can be produced from chaining L4 missions isn't as great as that of the Drone Alloys or mining directly, but it does add up in the end....



CCP already nerfed the ability for mission runners to greatly impact the mineral market the way they used to by reducing the Meta 0 drops. They did it, in their words, in an effort to make drone alloys and mining the primary source of minerals. But in the upcoming expansion I believe they are increasing the yield from metal scraps to 500 units of trit. So in a way they are reversing themselves by a marginal amount. Perhaps they think the price of trit is TOO high today and are adding some supply back in. IDK why else they would do that.

But no, if you made mining the sole source of minerals, it would just be from the initial extraction standpoint. You could still reprocess items built in the game. Look, I don't actually advocate making mining the single source. That would be foolish. But if you did, I do advocate taking miniing out of hisec completely. It would be far too profitable to allow hisec carebears access to it. Mining in hisec is just fine today. Mining for high ends is what is really broken (Zyd < 800?). And that has nothing to do with alloys.
Avila Cracko
#108 - 2011-11-21 16:24:43 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Malakai Draevyn wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:

I say it again - if you make mining the sole source of minerals in the game, then remove all ores from hisec. Too profitable for hisec.


Surely to do this would require the wholesale removal of the ability to reprocess modules / ships / whatever into minerals as well ? I know that relatively speaking the amount of minerals that can be produced from chaining L4 missions isn't as great as that of the Drone Alloys or mining directly, but it does add up in the end....



CCP already nerfed the ability for mission runners to greatly impact the mineral market the way they used to by reducing the Meta 0 drops. They did it, in their words, in an effort to make drone alloys and mining the primary source of minerals. But in the upcoming expansion I believe they are increasing the yield from metal scraps to 500 units of trit. So in a way they are reversing themselves by a marginal amount. Perhaps they think the price of trit is TOO high today and are adding some supply back in. IDK why else they would do that.

But no, if you made mining the sole source of minerals, it would just be from the initial extraction standpoint. You could still reprocess items built in the game. Look, I don't actually advocate making mining the single source. That would be foolish. But if you did, I do advocate taking miniing out of hisec completely. It would be far too profitable to allow hisec carebears access to it. Mining in hisec is just fine today. Mining for high ends is what is really broken (Zyd < 800?). And that has nothing to do with alloys.



CCP removed "few large guns" from drop lists and that's all what they removed from meta 0 drops...
they removed like 10-20% of meta 0 drops... that's all...
that have no impact at all...

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
BigCountry
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#109 - 2011-11-21 19:36:10 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:

Maybe we should let alloys stay but CCP can tax the ratters and give it to the miners. The we can create a welfare system in Eve. Or how about this: Get rid of all alloys and let mining be the only place you get get minerals. But in return, CCP removes all ore from hisec. Mining will only exist in lowsec and null sec space. If it is that profitable then it shouldn't be in hisec anyway. Deal?






HAHAHAHAHA This +100 ...........welfare for miners... and when they cant afford new mining crystals then they gotta go crystal stamps......
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#110 - 2011-11-21 23:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk MacGirk
From CCP Spitfire's Post

Solutions

  • Shuffle the drone regions around the map instead of clustering them all together [so that one group does not control the majority of the mineral supply]


    • It has become quite clear through CCP's recent actions and this specific "thought" from CCP Spitfire, that CCPs unstated intention is to intervene in the game against the so-called Russians. While everyone else sat around with their thumbs up their asses, the Russians (XIX, Solar and RA) solidified their control over the drone regions. Nobody else wanted these areas. Too hard to make isk, they said. The drone regions suck, they said. PvPers coldn't be bothered with anything but isk faucets like bounty space. The "real" PvP alliances didnt want it so nobody really tried to fight for it. So the Russians collected their alloys, built capital ships and formed the most well-run renter system in the game. Then came the introduction of the Super Carrier. Then people discovered that the drone regions were worth something. I hear it isnt so much fun when huge fleet of the most destructive ships in the game drop down on a system near you.

    In response, CCP is now nerfing titans and neutering super carriers while also buffing anti-SC ships and ensuring that blob warfare is the dominant tactic in the game once again. On top of that, a CCP dev thinks that perhaps the solution is to "shuffle the drone regions around the map... so that one group does not control the majority of the mineral supply." History shows that control of the materials of production gives a strategic advantage. The so-called Russians apparently knew this while the rest of Eve seemingly didn't care. CCP supposedly want there to be reason to fight in Eve. Well, if control of the majority of the mineral market in Eve isn't reason enough to fight, then there will never be a good reason. The solution is not to intervene on behalf of the ignorant popluation of the game against a group that figured out how to win. Because if they do, then CCP should just come out and declare:

    The Russians have won Eve and you just let them do it. As a result, we are hereby resetting the game back to the borders of hisec. Welcome to Eve 2.0.
    Elanor Vega
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #111 - 2011-11-21 23:44:05 UTC
    Destination SkillQueue wrote:
    Didn't see anyone posting this yet so here goes:

    CCP Spitfire wrote:
    Как и обещал, выкладываю краткую выжимку темы про возможные пути улучшения дрон-регионов на английском языке; копия была отправлена непосредственно CCP Greyscale. Так как ответы от разработчиков в этой теме также будут на английском, обсуждение, думаю, имеет смысл продолжать в предыдущей теме.

    ---

    As promised, here is a brief summary of the "Drone regions improvement suggestions" thread in the Russian General Discussion forum section.

    Background

    Perceived disparity of income in drone regions compared to the “bounty” null-sec:

    • Income in the drone regions is lower than in other null-sec (especially after the Drone Horde fixes and buffs of other anomalies)
    • “Gunmining” makes looting mandatory => need to operate extra accounts
    • Lack of exploration sites (ladar/magnetometric/etc.)

      • Solutions

    • Replace alloys with bounties comparable to other null-sec regions; at the same time, introduce other means for mineral compression [so that the existing player-built infrastructure is not wasted]
    • Replace alloys with tags / other sellable items (similar to overseer effects) / BPCs for drone ships and equipment [introduction of CONCORD-purchasable drone drops can be role-played accordingly]
    • Reduce the ratio of high-end minerals in the drone alloys [so that there is less dependency on drone regions for all minerals]
    • Introduce faction / officer drone modules [so that there is more diversity and/or income streams]
    • Introduce [mineral] convoys in drone regions [to counterbalance the lack of mineral supply if the alloys are changed to bounties]
    • Introduce drone exploration sites (ladar/magnetometric/etc.) [so that there is more diversity and/or income streams]
    • Increase the volume of alloys to be consistent with regular mining [so that mining does not become obsolete]
    • Add non-drone anomalies to drone regions (similar to drone anomalies in the rest of null-sec) [so that there is more diversity and/or income streams]
    • Shuffle the drone regions around the map instead of clustering them all together [so that one group does not control the majority of the mineral supply]
    • Replace alloys with T2 salvage or augmented drone components [so that the players can still contribute to the economy and get reasonable income]
    • Make the “fast-track” Drone Horde completion legal, essentially keeping the current status quo (while moving the escalation triggers to 10/10 complexes onto other anomalies) [so that the players are not penalized with reduced income]
    • Boost other high-end drone anomalies (Drone Patrols) [so that the players are not penalized with reduced income]
    • Add more drone/fighter/FB modifications to the game that would utilize drone components and create unique incentives in the drone regions [so that drone regions still produce something of considerable demand]
    • Differentiate drone loot depending on the means used to destroy the rogue drone (killing w/ blasters or thermal missiles yield alloys, killing w/ projectiles or explosive/kinetic weapons yield modules, lasers or EM missiles yield drone components)


    Potential Issues

    If the alloys will be replaced with bounties, will the following game elements be featured?


    • Drone NPC regions
    • Faction items
    • Officers


    Won’t the removal of alloys create a massive mineral deficit in the game; in the same vein, addition of drone bounties may lead to a massive inflation spike? In addition, PVE in drone regions is considered to be less prone to botting compared to other null-sec regions

    General Ideas and Feedback

    • Introduce more randomness to anomalies (% chance for extra spawns, other faction encounters within a given anomaly, etc. )
    • Botting is obviously perceived as a serious issue with null-sec in general
    • More ISK sinks are needed – e.g. introduce supercapital maintenance costs, etc.
    • Make regions more diverse (unique loot, etc.) without creating a dependency of the whole game on any one region







    Please CCP... remove mineral drops from drones...
    Give them anything else... just return minerals to miners... like it suppose to be in normal world...
    its not normal to shoot planes to get materials to make planes...
    Rykuss
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #112 - 2011-11-22 00:22:15 UTC
    Dirk MacGirk wrote:
    And you again don't see a problem?
    1 capital combat-support ship and 1 salvager mine more then 1 capital mining-support ship and 2 T2 mining ships...

    And we are talking about mining here





    Crucis -

    No, we are not talking about mining here. Miners are bitching they don't get paid enough, but what we are really talking about here is how to best supply the Eve mineral market with adequate supplies of minerals. Without a complete and radical change to the method and amounts that miners can achieve, you cannot simply toss out alloys.

    The short-term thought process of "just get rid of alloys so miners can earn more isk" is exactly what causes long term negative effects for the entire game. It is changes like these that CCP has made far too often. Rebalancing one area to help another that ends up unbalancing other areas of the game in the process. The point is to think things out before making wholesale changes in the game that have been in place for more than 4 years.

    I say it again - if you make mining the sole source of minerals in the game, then remove all ores from hisec. Too profitable for hisec.


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I was going to retort this post and point out how stupid your wall of excuses really is but this would be hilarious! Then maybe you people would upgrade your systems and mine your own minerals. I say you people because noone else would come out there to mine them for you. Wouldn't that pretty much force people to "babysit" miners? LOL You're right, CCP should stop fixing those other mechanics in the game because they've been there for years. Lol

    You, too, can be a Solid Gold dancer.
    Severian Carnifex
    #113 - 2011-11-22 05:59:17 UTC
    Rykuss wrote:
    Dirk MacGirk wrote:
    And you again don't see a problem?
    1 capital combat-support ship and 1 salvager mine more then 1 capital mining-support ship and 2 T2 mining ships...

    And we are talking about mining here





    Crucis -

    No, we are not talking about mining here. Miners are bitching they don't get paid enough, but what we are really talking about here is how to best supply the Eve mineral market with adequate supplies of minerals. Without a complete and radical change to the method and amounts that miners can achieve, you cannot simply toss out alloys.

    The short-term thought process of "just get rid of alloys so miners can earn more isk" is exactly what causes long term negative effects for the entire game. It is changes like these that CCP has made far too often. Rebalancing one area to help another that ends up unbalancing other areas of the game in the process. The point is to think things out before making wholesale changes in the game that have been in place for more than 4 years.

    I say it again - if you make mining the sole source of minerals in the game, then remove all ores from hisec. Too profitable for hisec.


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I was going to retort this post and point out how stupid your wall of excuses really is but this would be hilarious! Then maybe you people would upgrade your systems and mine your own minerals. I say you people because noone else would come out there to mine them for you. Wouldn't that pretty much force people to "babysit" miners? LOL You're right, CCP should stop fixing those other mechanics in the game because they've been there for years. Lol


    soooo +1
    Avila Cracko
    #114 - 2011-11-22 11:10:23 UTC
    BigCountry wrote:
    Dirk MacGirk wrote:

    Maybe we should let alloys stay but CCP can tax the ratters and give it to the miners. The we can create a welfare system in Eve. Or how about this: Get rid of all alloys and let mining be the only place you get get minerals. But in return, CCP removes all ore from hisec. Mining will only exist in lowsec and null sec space. If it is that profitable then it shouldn't be in hisec anyway. Deal?






    HAHAHAHAHA This +100 ...........welfare for miners... and when they cant afford new mining crystals then they gotta go crystal stamps......



    The sad part is that the direction mining is going we will need to give miners crystal and food stamps... mining is so broken and miners profit is so miserable low...

    truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
    Dirk MacGirk
    Specter Syndicate
    #115 - 2011-11-22 12:29:08 UTC
    You must be referring to mining in hisec. But even there, the price of the low end minerals is up from a year ago. For example, trit is up 50% from this time a year ago to around its highest level in a long time.

    You just can't cry about the profits from mining in hisec. No risk, no reward. And don't tell me about Hulkageddon and the Goons and can flippers being a risk. If you're in hisec and want to mine and make money, then get some friends, make a corp and come to 0.0 and put up an ihub so you can mine Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite. But quit blaming alloys for your woes. Hisec was never meant to be very profitable for miners. Its why they put the crap ores there.

    If you are already in 0.0 and not making enough isk from mining, you still can't blame alloys because they have almost nothing to do with high end minerals. Those are too low because there are too many miners in 0.0 mining Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite relative to the demand for Megacyte and Zydrine in the market.

    Blaming alloys alone for the woes of hisec miners is like blaming all of 0.0 because hisec planetary interaction isn't as profitable as it is in 0.0. It was never meant to be. When CCP talks about how to fix the drone regions, they don't mean so hisec miners can get paid more. They mean how do they improve the drone regions and how do they keep the Russians from owning it all. Their intentions are clear and it has nothing to do with your profits while sitting 2 jumps from a trade hub crying over your empty belt of veldspar/pyrox/scordite/omber, etc.

    Anyway, good luck. I have to go take care of some Prime Arkonor that isn't going to mine itself. And then I have to go mine some drones.
    Elanor Vega
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #116 - 2011-11-22 18:36:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Elanor Vega
    Dirk MacGirk wrote:
    You must be referring to mining in hisec. But even there, the price of the low end minerals is up from a year ago. For example, trit is up 50% from this time a year ago to around its highest level in a long time.

    You just can't cry about the profits from mining in hisec. No risk, no reward. And don't tell me about Hulkageddon and the Goons and can flippers being a risk. If you're in hisec and want to mine and make money, then get some friends, make a corp and come to 0.0 and put up an ihub so you can mine Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite. But quit blaming alloys for your woes. Hisec was never meant to be very profitable for miners. Its why they put the crap ores there.

    If you are already in 0.0 and not making enough isk from mining, you still can't blame alloys because they have almost nothing to do with high end minerals. Those are too low because there are too many miners in 0.0 mining Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite relative to the demand for Megacyte and Zydrine in the market.

    Blaming alloys alone for the woes of hisec miners is like blaming all of 0.0 because hisec planetary interaction isn't as profitable as it is in 0.0. It was never meant to be. When CCP talks about how to fix the drone regions, they don't mean so hisec miners can get paid more. They mean how do they improve the drone regions and how do they keep the Russians from owning it all. Their intentions are clear and it has nothing to do with your profits while sitting 2 jumps from a trade hub crying over your empty belt of veldspar/pyrox/scordite/omber, etc.

    Anyway, good luck. I have to go take care of some Prime Arkonor that isn't going to mine itself. And then I have to go mine some drones.


    And who are you to take ISK from other group of players???

    Mining was here from begining of EVE and ppl trained skills for looong time to mine and manufacture...
    and they you got minerals under your guns and without any specialized training got more minerals then mining...
    If you want it... then i want that CCP introduce additional training of same length per mining amount per hour per character as miners have for ppl that want to gun mine to get that minerals!!!
    Then we can talk who can earn how much from minerals... only then!!!

    If we with mining skills can only mine...
    then you with killing skills can only kill...

    or give mining lasers dmg that would be better then the best combat ship...
    if your combat ship can mine better then the best mining ship... that we should kill better then the best combat ship...
    Crucis Cassiopeiae
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #117 - 2011-11-22 20:05:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae
    Elanor Vega wrote:
    Dirk MacGirk wrote:
    You must be referring to mining in hisec. But even there, the price of the low end minerals is up from a year ago. For example, trit is up 50% from this time a year ago to around its highest level in a long time.

    You just can't cry about the profits from mining in hisec. No risk, no reward. And don't tell me about Hulkageddon and the Goons and can flippers being a risk. If you're in hisec and want to mine and make money, then get some friends, make a corp and come to 0.0 and put up an ihub so you can mine Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite. But quit blaming alloys for your woes. Hisec was never meant to be very profitable for miners. Its why they put the crap ores there.

    If you are already in 0.0 and not making enough isk from mining, you still can't blame alloys because they have almost nothing to do with high end minerals. Those are too low because there are too many miners in 0.0 mining Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite relative to the demand for Megacyte and Zydrine in the market.

    Blaming alloys alone for the woes of hisec miners is like blaming all of 0.0 because hisec planetary interaction isn't as profitable as it is in 0.0. It was never meant to be. When CCP talks about how to fix the drone regions, they don't mean so hisec miners can get paid more. They mean how do they improve the drone regions and how do they keep the Russians from owning it all. Their intentions are clear and it has nothing to do with your profits while sitting 2 jumps from a trade hub crying over your empty belt of veldspar/pyrox/scordite/omber, etc.

    Anyway, good luck. I have to go take care of some Prime Arkonor that isn't going to mine itself. And then I have to go mine some drones.


    And who are you to take ISK from other group of players???

    Mining was here from begining of EVE and ppl trained skills for looong time to mine and manufacture...
    and they you got minerals under your guns and without any specialized training got more minerals then mining...
    If you want it... then i want that CCP introduce additional training of same length per mining amount per hour per character as miners have for ppl that want to gun mine to get that minerals!!!
    Then we can talk who can earn how much from minerals... only then!!!

    If we with mining skills can only mine...
    then you with killing skills can only kill...

    or give mining lasers dmg that would be better then the best combat ship...
    if your combat ship can mine better then the best mining ship... that we should kill better then the best combat ship...


    You hit the center of the problem by this!
    Ppl that wasted their subscription time on training of something must benefit of it, and only of it, and not of all things in eve, and not something else, only of that what you trained for.
    You train it, you get it... you don't train it, you don't get it... simple.

    Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 
    Dirk MacGirk
    Specter Syndicate
    #118 - 2011-11-22 23:52:50 UTC
    Industry: 6+ million SP 31/32 skills all level 4 or higher. This does not include the skills for hulks, orcas, rorquals, leadership skills, etc. etc. Now multiply that across multiple characters. So don't waste your time talking about skills you've trained that aren't paying off the way you WISH they would. Because then I'll just throw out there how Fighter Bombers 5 is working out for me.

    We all train skills that are sometimes worth using and sometimes not. Let me give you a piece of advice: learn to do more than one thing in the game. Markets change and the way you earn today may not be the most profitable way tomorrow.
    Avila Cracko
    #119 - 2011-11-23 14:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
    How i love ppl that are butthurt when you tell them the truth...
    Then they change the subject...

    truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
    Dirk MacGirk
    Specter Syndicate
    #120 - 2011-11-23 22:05:10 UTC
    Dude, I have repeatedly put down your weak attempts at trying to justify getting rid of alloys. Learn to live with it because alloys are not going away. If you want to know why, search my posts for the lesson on supply and demand. That doesn't mean CCP might not find a way of changing the drone regions, but I can reasonably guarantee the end result will not be to make hisec mining better for you.

    And I didn't change the subject, you simpleton. I merely listed my mining/industry skills in order to let you know I'm not some n00b and that I understand how long it takes to train skills. But how long it takes you to train anything in this game has no bearing on what you think you deserve. Thinking you deserve anything other than being allowed to log in after paying your sub is just foolish. So take your weak ass whining about what you wish and hope someplace else because unless you can bring even the smallest defensible argument to the table, you just continue to devalue your input.

    Then again, maybe you and some of the others can get together and set up tents in LXQ2-T and start the "Occupy Drone Regions" movement. You'll get just as far with that as posting your carebear tears in this forum. God it's sad when one carebear has to tell another he's embarrassing the rest of us.