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Baiting mission looters
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fried eggs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-17 14:28:23 UTC
I want to add a little PVP to PVE experience. My main run’s LVL4’s in CNR in High-Sec (shocking, I know…). I want to bait a mission looter by…running a mission “as usual”. However, I also want to have an alt in a cloaked ship on grid. When the looter steals from my can, I will either shoot with my main, or uncloak and shoot with the alt.

So here are my questions: First, I assume I am right about being able to shoot with the alt since he is in the same corp as my main. Is this right? Second, and this is the big one for me, what ship should the alt fly? He is Caldari with around 50M SP (mix of PVE and PVP). He can fly any Caldari boat fairly well but is focused on missiles and ECM. Some ships I am considering are Cerb, Scorp, Falcon or BB.

The ship question will obviously be influenced by the role of the alt. I am struggling with deciding on a tactic. I don’t know if I want to use the alt for ECM or DPS (or both). If the CNR gets aggro I want to be able to get it out if things go sideways. Therefore, the alt would be primarily ECM (including scrambling and webbing). If the CNR has no aggro, the alt will have to do it all, but from long distance in case he needs to get out. If they both have aggro then, again, what is the tactic? Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-11-17 14:54:17 UTC
If you're in the same player corp, they'll go red for you. if it's an NPC corp, you're out of luck.
Garbad theWeak
#3 - 2011-11-17 15:08:50 UTC
fried eggs wrote:
I want to add a little PVP to PVE experience. My main run’s LVL4’s in CNR in High-Sec (shocking, I know…). I want to bait a mission looter by…running a mission “as usual”. However, I also want to have an alt in a cloaked ship on grid. When the looter steals from my can, I will either shoot with my main, or uncloak and shoot with the alt.

So here are my questions: First, I assume I am right about being able to shoot with the alt since he is in the same corp as my main. Is this right? Second, and this is the big one for me, what ship should the alt fly? He is Caldari with around 50M SP (mix of PVE and PVP). He can fly any Caldari boat fairly well but is focused on missiles and ECM. Some ships I am considering are Cerb, Scorp, Falcon or BB.

The ship question will obviously be influenced by the role of the alt. I am struggling with deciding on a tactic. I don’t know if I want to use the alt for ECM or DPS (or both). If the CNR gets aggro I want to be able to get it out if things go sideways. Therefore, the alt would be primarily ECM (including scrambling and webbing). If the CNR has no aggro, the alt will have to do it all, but from long distance in case he needs to get out. If they both have aggro then, again, what is the tactic? Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Here's the honest truth -- this will go badly for you, probably costing you at least a CNR.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#4 - 2011-11-17 15:18:06 UTC
Have a Torp/Nuet phoon in system waiting. When they warp out to swap ships, do so to and meet them back on the gate. Let the 1100 dps 3 Heavy neut super fun time begin.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-11-17 16:04:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
sYnc Vir wrote:
Have a Torp/Nuet phoon in system waiting. When they warp out to swap ships, do so to and meet them back on the gate. Let the 1100 dps 3 Heavy neut super fun time begin.


I'm not so sure. Many ninjas fly small crap (cruiser -> BC hulls) in order to avoid getting hit. Torps are very bad at hitting small crap. Additionally, most people won't warp out to swap ships, and will just use an orca or something for the swap.

You would probably be better off with a Tempest, as you can still get dual heavy neuts, and on top of that, can fit dual webs, and have turrets which would be more effective at hitting things with a small sig.

Alternatively, have your alt cloaked up in a Rapier. When the fight starts, uncloak him, web down and point the target, and let the CNR do the killing. This would probably be a safer option, as you don't need to wait for the Tempest to warp in and save the day (which comes with the possibility of the ninja warping out when he sees the tempest on scan).

Whatever you decide on, you probably shouldn't do this unless you're rich enough to lose a CNR or two. PVP never goes how you expect in this game.
Sage Revinour
Only Fools or Horses
#6 - 2011-11-17 16:10:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sage Revinour
fried eggs wrote:
First, I assume I am right about being able to shoot with the alt since he is in the same corp as my main. Is this right?


You would be wrong, and your alt would get CONCORDokken. Just because someone steals from YOUR can doesn't mean everyone in the PLAYER corp can shoot him. The crime was against you, not the corp.

fried eggs wrote:
Second, and this is the big one for me, what ship should the alt fly?


See the above post about torp sniper 'phoon, for example. Have your alt hop into it, wait for the thief, and pop him/her if you can.

ps: oh,and don't mission in the mission hubs if you're afraid of getting your loot swiped.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#7 - 2011-11-17 16:31:25 UTC
Sage Revinour wrote:
fried eggs wrote:
First, I assume I am right about being able to shoot with the alt since he is in the same corp as my main. Is this right?


You would be wrong, and your alt would get CONCORDokken. Just because someone steals from YOUR can doesn't mean everyone in the PLAYER corp can shoot him. The crime was against you, not the corp.

If you're this dumb, why post?

Stealing from a can, from a player not in an NPC corp, aggroes the whole corp.

And WTF is a "torp sniper phoon" ?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-17 16:55:14 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Sage Revinour wrote:
fried eggs wrote:
First, I assume I am right about being able to shoot with the alt since he is in the same corp as my main. Is this right?


You would be wrong, and your alt would get CONCORDokken. Just because someone steals from YOUR can doesn't mean everyone in the PLAYER corp can shoot him. The crime was against you, not the corp.

If you're this dumb, why post?

Stealing from a can, from a player not in an NPC corp, aggroes the whole corp.

And WTF is a "torp sniper phoon" ?


What he said.

I suggest you learn aggro mechanics before you post a response.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-11-17 17:07:41 UTC
When your cnr and cloaky ship dies to a rifter please come and tell me.
Captain Nathaniel Butler
The White Company
#10 - 2011-11-17 17:28:23 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Sage Revinour wrote:
fried eggs wrote:
First, I assume I am right about being able to shoot with the alt since he is in the same corp as my main. Is this right?


You would be wrong, and your alt would get CONCORDokken. Just because someone steals from YOUR can doesn't mean everyone in the PLAYER corp can shoot him. The crime was against you, not the corp.

If you're this dumb, why post?

Stealing from a can, from a player not in an NPC corp, aggroes the whole corp.

And WTF is a "torp sniper phoon" ?


What he said.

I suggest you learn aggro mechanics before you post a response.



I can only echo these posters sentiments really.

Lady Spank for C&P moderator.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#11 - 2011-11-17 17:33:17 UTC
Roosterton wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
Have a Torp/Nuet phoon in system waiting. When they warp out to swap ships, do so to and meet them back on the gate. Let the 1100 dps 3 Heavy neut super fun time begin.


I'm not so sure. Many ninjas fly small crap (cruiser -> BC hulls) in order to avoid getting hit. Torps are very bad at hitting small crap. Additionally, most people won't warp out to swap ships, and will just use an orca or something for the swap.

You would probably be better off with a Tempest, as you can still get dual heavy neuts, and on top of that, can fit dual webs, and have turrets which would be more effective at hitting things with a small sig.

Alternatively, have your alt cloaked up in a Rapier. When the fight starts, uncloak him, web down and point the target, and let the CNR do the killing. This would probably be a safer option, as you don't need to wait for the Tempest to warp in and save the day (which comes with the possibility of the ninja warping out when he sees the tempest on scan).

Whatever you decide on, you probably shouldn't do this unless you're rich enough to lose a CNR or two. PVP never goes how you expect in this game.



Tempest is another good option, also if someone has an alt and wants to avoid looters wouldn't it be easier just to have that alt in a Noctis?

If however you wanna bait looters, Rapier cloaked is fun way to go.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Doomheim
#12 - 2011-11-17 17:55:56 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
If however you wanna bait looters, Rapier cloaked is fun way to go.

Did you even read what ships the OP said he could fly?

Also:

Sage Revinour wrote:
You would be wrong, and your alt would get CONCORDokken. Just because someone steals from YOUR can doesn't mean everyone in the PLAYER corp can shoot him. The crime was against you, not the corp.


LolLol
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#13 - 2011-11-17 17:59:34 UTC
Sage Revinour wrote:
fried eggs wrote:
First, I assume I am right about being able to shoot with the alt since he is in the same corp as my main. Is this right?


You would be wrong, and your alt would get CONCORDokken. Just because someone steals from YOUR can doesn't mean everyone in the PLAYER corp can shoot him. The crime was against you, not the corp.

fried eggs wrote:
Second, and this is the big one for me, what ship should the alt fly?


See the above post about torp sniper 'phoon, for example. Have your alt hop into it, wait for the thief, and pop him/her if you can.

ps: oh,and don't mission in the mission hubs if you're afraid of getting your loot swiped.



You would not only be wrong, but ****ing stupid. Someone takes can from member of player-owned Corp, it aggros the entire Corp. Meaning, you better run faster.

WTF is a Torp-Sniper 'phoon!?

Torps are short-range missiles.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#14 - 2011-11-17 18:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
If they steal from a can, they become flashy to the entire corp (unless your in an NPC corp), so your in-corp alt should be fine.

This is how I image it would go down.... looter loots to get your CNR to shoot. Your CNR shoots, and either the looter attempts to gank your CNR with the ship they are in, or more likely leaves and returns with a ship that can more easily kill your CNR. Bringing in RR is a common tactic too.

Its very common for a mission ganker to have an Orca nearby. This allows them to switch ships very quickly, and return in a more combat oriented vessel. Additionally, if they can fly an orca to the battle, they can dock ship in the orca to avoid losses. **** PvP mechanics are ****...

If you are going to aggress with your CNR, I highly recommend your alt sit in a falcon.... the provides a little GTFO ability if things go wrong. Also, don't aggress anyone other than the primary target. As long as you don't shoot someone other than the original target, they will have 1 ship to attack with, and you will have two (note, they could still have RR). If you start aggressing their help, you allow the help to swap out for dps/tackle/ewar, and rejoin the fight.

If its something where you are just going to solo with your alt.... I'd recommend a drake.... its a cheap, affordable, and very affective caldari combat vessel. The rook is also an extremely good choice. Realize, if you decloak an alt and aggress, its much less likely they will return in anything your alt can solo..... so kill what you can, and then get safe.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#15 - 2011-11-17 18:10:27 UTC
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
If however you wanna bait looters, Rapier cloaked is fun way to go.

Did you even read what ships the OP said he could fly?


My bad, Caldari only I would go with the combo off,

Torp/Nuet Rokh and Torp/ECM Scorpion have your alt in station with the fitting open and no ECM mods fitted when you return in the Rokh and see what ship he has fit the right mods undock and go mine those mission grifer tears.

Torp Nuet Rokh does 650 dps with 4 heavy neuts, scorpion does meh, but will jam the crap out of him. watch for RR but CCP just changed that making it easier to deal with.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Mazer
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#16 - 2011-11-17 18:14:44 UTC
If the mechanics are in your favor then selecting a ship type really depends on the types of ships the mission thieves are using. All this talk of battleships and recons doesn't make any sense if the thieves are flying something small. You have to take into account the small scan resolution of battleships and the targeting delay from decloaking with recon ships. If they have any reaction time at all they'll be off field before you get a chance to target them. If they're flying a noctis then you could probably pull off a kill with a recon ship, if they're flying t1 frig then you could pull it off with an assault missile fit stealth bomber (cloaked of course). There is no one good ship for every thief situation you run into. As mentioned before, if you don't want to lose your CNR, keep it out of these fights....

http://mazeve.blogspot.com/
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-11-17 18:47:14 UTC
fried eggs wrote:
I want to add a little PVP to PVE experience.


Might I suggest joining a PvP-oriented corporation, such as RvB, factional warfare, or one of the dozens others in the recruitment forum?
laffbot
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-11-17 19:20:28 UTC
just jam him with the falcon / point with cnr ,and watch him cry in local Roll
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#19 - 2011-11-17 20:37:41 UTC
This has reminded me my alt is 12 hours from an Orca \o/

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

fried eggs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-11-17 20:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: fried eggs
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
If they steal from a can, they become flashy to the entire corp (unless your in an NPC corp), so your in-corp alt should be fine.

This is how I image it would go down.... looter loots to get your CNR to shoot. Your CNR shoots, and either the looter attempts to gank your CNR with the ship they are in, or more likely leaves and returns with a ship that can more easily kill your CNR. Bringing in RR is a common tactic too.

Its very common for a mission ganker to have an Orca nearby. This allows them to switch ships very quickly, and return in a more combat oriented vessel. Additionally, if they can fly an orca to the battle, they can dock ship in the orca to avoid losses. **** PvP mechanics are ****...

If you are going to aggress with your CNR, I highly recommend your alt sit in a falcon.... the provides a little GTFO ability if things go wrong. Also, don't aggress anyone other than the primary target. As long as you don't shoot someone other than the original target, they will have 1 ship to attack with, and you will have two (note, they could still have RR). If you start aggressing their help, you allow the help to swap out for dps/tackle/ewar, and rejoin the fight.

If its something where you are just going to solo with your alt.... I'd recommend a drake.... its a cheap, affordable, and very affective caldari combat vessel. The rook is also an extremely good choice. Realize, if you decloak an alt and aggress, its much less likely they will return in anything your alt can solo..... so kill what you can, and then get safe.

Thanks for the replies everyone (even those that seem afraid of a mission runner fighting back with some strategy).

Thanks a lot for this also Gizznitt. And yes, this is the way I envision it happening as well. I had a much more detailed OP earlier but the forum ate it twice. I had to rush and failed to mention that I imagine shooting their loot ship (which they are most likely using as bait) and them warping out, re-shipping and coming back in a BC or BS (hence the title of the thread..."Baiting mission looters").

I also failed to list the Drake as one of the ships I was considering for the alt. If I decide to let him (my alt) get the aggro I will definitely consider the Drake. Follow up question though: Why not a Cerb? Can it not dish enough DPS to alpha a BC? Just wondering. I don’t have EFT here at work so I can’t check atm…
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