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The T3 overheating subsystem

First post
Author
Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#1 - 2014-05-28 23:04:04 UTC
*this is a cross post from another part of the forums*
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=347825&find=unread

What is the point of this subsystem, actually?

I cannot think of many scenarios where its really beneficial to run this subsystem over the other subsystems that offer more guns or more missiles. The overheating sub grants a low slot to both the tengu and the legion and a mid to the proteus and loki.

So am I to assume that the sub isn't designed around overheating your guns for maximum effect but overheating points/scrams/webs or other EWAR? What use is an extra lowslot on a tengu? Maybe for a railgu except then you really want the power core multiplier to get more guns since there's only one configuration that gives guns to start with?

As of right now, for example, with the OHer sub a particular configuration of tengu gets 700dps as compared with the Augmented capacitor reserve which supplies an extra high for a cold dps of 880 vs the HOT dps of the OHer config for 860. Not only is the sustainable dps higher on the cold config but the burst is higher too, not to mention that the tengu in particular doesn't net that much benefit from the extra lows.

The best compromise I've been able to create is using a capactor flux coil in the low and sticking a medium neut in the remaining high. For a Tengu.

My thought would be that the overheating sub would provide more guns/missile slots for a penalty on the primary tanking of each race in order to encourage overheating to have a quick fight before dying. And by this I mean overheating EVERYTHING since you'd have a good 16% less room for tanking modules and they risk burning out before you're finished you would want to overheat some of them at least.

I put the motion to the floor that during the T3 rebalance that the Supplemental Coolant Injector subsystem grant the following

Tengu: +1 High, +2 Lows, +1 turret, +1 missile
Legion: +1 high, + 2 lows, +1 turret, +1 missile
Loki: +1 high, +1 medium, +1 low, +1 turret
Proteus: +1 high, +1 medium, +1 low, +1 turret

Reasons I think this would improve the T3's as listed are first of all they all get some extra DPS but lose a BCS/Magstab/gyro slot to compensate and need to overheat to reach best performance. It encourages this subsystem to actually get used instead of being the cheapest and most prohibitive subsystem around. This gives more options for how to fit your ships as well by pushing the tengu and legion further in either guns or missiles direction and it allows the loki/prot to retain their EWAR/cap injector/dual prop utility.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-06-02 06:00:34 UTC
This is actually a pretty Good idea, and only helps with temporary DPS while still having a trade off. I support it, though i kinda would like to see the role bonus also incresed to 7.5% per level, to let it have the DPS/Tank bonus for a little longer.
Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#3 - 2014-06-10 09:21:24 UTC
HOLY **** CCP YOUR FORUMS ARE AN EMBARASSMENT

Following on from the RLML thread in F&I we have

Sustained/Peak/Overheated/gross damage

Caracal: 215/410/481/20160
NCaracal: 258/491/578/24180
NOsprey: 220/370/433/24180
ScFi: 220/370/433/24180
Gila: 240/368/433/24180
onyx: 250/384/451/25200
Tengu 5 launcher OH sub: 331/614/722/25200
Cerb: 348/678/722/31894
Tengu 6 launcher: 383/736/866/31960
Orthrus: 412/631/742/40320

all of which when shooting kinetic. Outside of kinetic:

Quote:
I also wanted to add that the Tengus and cerbs all lose about 24% of their damage when using NOT kinetic, putting them at ~24180 gross for the 6 launcher tengu and cerb and 20160 for the 5 launcher tengu. Gila when shooting EM or explosive loses 30% over kinetic/thermal and gets 16060 damage per clip.


By giving the OHer fit the changes I mentioned in the OP for this thread:

383/736/866/31960 becomes your new damage profile and you lose a lowslot which in that setup is your DCU II or nano or whatever - dropping you from 4 lows to 3. Punishment enough for wanting as much dps as you can have.

Throughout the course of this research I'm forced to question the worth of the Augmented Cap reservior. Cap regen matrix gives more PG and 20gj/s more regen. You also get like 700gj more cap off the bat. While the aug gives you an extra gun I think if it gave you an extra low, +10%/level cap total and you keep the high would be more fair since you have a limitation on PG over the cap regen. But that's a whole other story and I would need to look at in more detail than I'm prepared to at this time.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-06-12 22:29:30 UTC
The overhead module is used in a very few set ups, by very few I mean one that I know of.

I like the idea I don't know if maybe just adding a 5% bonus to weapon damage when over heating, per level would also make this sub useful.
Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#5 - 2014-06-16 03:45:33 UTC
corbexx wrote:
The overhead module is used in a very few set ups, by very few I mean one that I know of.

I like the idea I don't know if maybe just adding a 5% bonus to weapon damage when over heating, per level would also make this sub useful.


The main reason I wanted to add an extra gun is because of how overheating and heat-spill works. By making extra highs (that aren't necessarily used for weapons mind you) you increase this configurations versatility a bit and also stretch the risks of chronic overheating further out.

5% per level is very reasonable but not for this sub I think. Based on my research in to caldari missile boats they typically fall short on gross damage put down field and this is before looking at other missile intracacies like being speed tanked or having missiles out-run. The additional high slot and the loss of a low for example

means you can lose a nano or DCU II (which in the configuration I run is nearly 40k ehp lost) or otherwise find it harder to run away. However it does mean that I can volley pesky frigates/destroyers off me a bit faster.

To drive that second point home I invite you to run a couple of exploration sites or level 3 missions with RLML and see just how bad this weapon is for that kind of environment. While I understand that AC/Blasters and to some degree pulse lasers are mostly balanced around pvp (ie <24km) combat the cruiser missile systems are not and are affected very heavily by even the basic speed of the target. It's not unreasonable to assume a frigate might be dual-prop and sit at 20km orbiting you at 1200m/s which places them far outside of web range.

OTOH maybe the OHer sub could instead of granting an extra high or raw damage or whatever, it increases the OH bonus from modules (similar to new T2 transports) which covers quite effectively the need for more damage and doesn't necessarily change any current balancing as far as slot layout is concerned.

I personally still favour the extra high-slot to bring the damage output up to spec especially for a tengu but perhaps an almagimation of our two ideas could be appropriate as well.