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New dev blog: Asking for directions

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Author
Tipsy
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#61 - 2011-11-17 15:09:16 UTC
Nice. This will be a popular change because it improves something almost all of us do all of the time. Can you tell us how you did it - did you rotate them all with some sort of script based on the map data? How long did it take to prepare and do?

CCP Mannapi wrote:
@Illwill Bill: We would LOVE to make a nice transition effect from one system to another. I will try to get it on our backlog for future realeases.

Yes! This. Please. I've wanted this since beta. Coming from playing Frontier: Elite II there are two big things the EVE graphics have missed for me - docking/undocking and jumping animations. Seeing the ships zoom out of the gate, or a pilot's eye view of the transition between the systems' view of the nebulas would be cool. The progress bar hasn't changed much since beta and, while it disappears quickly these days, still feels like a placeholder, taking the player out of the EVE world when the progress indication could be displayed in a more subtle way (eg. a bar of a few pixels along the bottom of the screen) while showing the player something more appealing. It would help to give EVE another coat of polish.

New nebulas, new warp effect, gates properly aligned... it's as though CCP rediscovered their mojo.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#62 - 2011-11-17 15:11:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
I like I like

A few notes if you ever get a chance to improve on this great start

CCP Mannapi wrote:
........

@hero honda: You will most definitely be able to see the destination star through the gate! Unless the jump is redonkulously long that is.


Huh? In RL, the star Polaris, the north star, is 200 light years away and still easily visible. (Its an intrinsically bright star, a Cephied variable). The entire eve cluster is only 100 light years across. No jump should be so long as to hide its destination star.

Is the brightness of the nearby stars based only on their distance, or both distance and luminosity?

There are other oddities.

The orientation of the nebulae do not change jump to jump. This means somehow the ecliptic plane of every solar system in eve is parallel to every other. Quite odd... Is that a clue to hidden canon?

W-space is 1300 LY to the south-east of the eve cluster, but even at that distance red giants are easily visible. Betelgeuse is 640 LY away and the 8th brightest star in the sky. Are they represented in the new eve sky? For that matter, is there more than one red giant in the W-space cluster? However many there are, they should all be visible from all w-space systems. They are bright!

But if you ever get around to it, it may make sense to group all the red giant W-systems around one red giant, and place that in the New Eden sky. Same with the other W-space special systems.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Razin
The Scope
#63 - 2011-11-17 15:13:35 UTC
Great work guys! Thanks to you EVE's immersion factor will go up several orders of magnitude!

Some questions and requests, if I may:

1. Is making hi-rez nebula backdrops available (to replace the current ones) for an optional download still in the plans? Approximately when do you think we could have access to that, and what would be the GPU impact?

2. As many have said, increasing the granularity of changing the backdrops to once per constellation would improve the whole thing significantly.

3. Are there plans to update the planet graphics? Mainly the gas giants look a little too fuzzy, and the planets lack any visible polar regions.

4. Could you make available a picture of the EVE cluster with all the nebulae integrated as a seamless whole? Maybe with the starmap of EVE overlaid? In as hi-rez as possible, 16x10 ratio. Thanks!
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#64 - 2011-11-17 15:19:01 UTC
This is an excellent change! It's the little details that really add up, and we're getting closer to fairly usable visual navigation.

+1000000000 to the Diablo style map overlay, though I'm sure that would be a bear to implement.

For all those whinging about gates not being on the right "side" of the solar system (i.e. the one nearest the destination), there's some game lore for you here. TL;DR: there are resonance nodes between stellar bodies that the gates have to be installed on, and the nodes are fixed between different systems. So the gates are where they are because that's the only way the system works. "Sides" of the system is irrelevant. Fun with spatial mechanics.
Dierdra Vaal
Interstellar Stargate Syndicate
#65 - 2011-11-17 15:20:22 UTC
Viktor Dratok wrote:
All i read was "...have to move bookmarks" and then i chose not to like this.

Doesnt improve the game at all its just stupid work that has to be done if u want to have your previously working bookmarks to work again as intended.


Why would you need to move your bookmarks? I honestly don't get it. Seriously, I'm struggling to come up with situations where you need to move your bookmarks other than the exceedingly rare case where your bookmark is now inside the structure, causing you to be propelled away from it after warping there.

Veto #205

Director Emeritus at EVE University

CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman

Evesterdam organiser and CSM Vote Match founder

Co-Author of the Galactic Party Planning Guide

Faith Sunstrider
#66 - 2011-11-17 15:31:12 UTC
inb4: hurr durr I want my bookmarks fixed again herp derp EVE is dead now I want to play swtor and wow.

good work.. but may I ask..
It was hard to change the direction of all 14238 gates? Maybe a fancy script? or maybe someone was bored and did it manually?
Viktor Dratok
Wise Guys
#67 - 2011-11-17 15:37:59 UTC
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
Viktor Dratok wrote:
All i read was "...have to move bookmarks" and then i chose not to like this.

Doesnt improve the game at all its just stupid work that has to be done if u want to have your previously working bookmarks to work again as intended.


Why would you need to move your bookmarks? I honestly don't get it. Seriously, I'm struggling to come up with situations where you need to move your bookmarks other than the exceedingly rare case where your bookmark is now inside the structure, causing you to be propelled away from it after warping there.



And this is coming from a member of a PVP corp. I am more than surprised. I won't get into detail where precise bookmarks are needed.
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#68 - 2011-11-17 15:41:59 UTC
Realism in my spaceship game? What have you done!

I love it :) I don't know what pills you guys are on now, but all these little changes are great. It's fun to have a few big things, but it's really the little details one constantly notices that break the immersion in the game. Anything that fixes those problems creates a better universe for me. Thanks
lachrymus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2011-11-17 15:42:14 UTC
Draahk Chimera wrote:
This is great. Immersion for the win. Now for your next project can you make it so ships dont rotate to an imaginary plane when not moving? Partly for immersion reasons partly for tactics it has annoyed me for six years now that if you align to an object above you then stop (passive align) your ship will turn itself to the "plane" when there is no force that would make that natural.

This +1
Dierdra Vaal
Interstellar Stargate Syndicate
#70 - 2011-11-17 15:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dierdra Vaal
Viktor Dratok wrote:
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
Viktor Dratok wrote:
All i read was "...have to move bookmarks" and then i chose not to like this.

Doesnt improve the game at all its just stupid work that has to be done if u want to have your previously working bookmarks to work again as intended.


Why would you need to move your bookmarks? I honestly don't get it. Seriously, I'm struggling to come up with situations where you need to move your bookmarks other than the exceedingly rare case where your bookmark is now inside the structure, causing you to be propelled away from it after warping there.



And this is coming from a member of a PVP corp. I am more than surprised. I won't get into detail where precise bookmarks are needed.


The only thing that has changed is the orientation of the stargate itself.

* Your warp directions (gate to celestial, etc) are still exactly the same
* Your ship's orientation after jumping through remains the same
* Your bookmark locations are still exactly the same.

So, again, why would you need new bookmarks? An observation bookmark 200km above the gate will still be exactly 200km above that gate, with people warping to and fro exactly like they did before. Literally nothing has changed except the graphical representation of the gate.

Veto #205

Director Emeritus at EVE University

CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman

Evesterdam organiser and CSM Vote Match founder

Co-Author of the Galactic Party Planning Guide

Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#71 - 2011-11-17 15:44:31 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
For all those whinging about gates not being on the right "side" of the solar system (i.e. the one nearest the destination), there's some game lore for you here. TL;DR: there are resonance nodes between stellar bodies that the gates have to be installed on, and the nodes are fixed between different systems. So the gates are where they are because that's the only way the system works. "Sides" of the system is irrelevant. Fun with spatial mechanics.

I was worrying about immersion, not lore-realism.

I don't know about you, but during warp I'm usually looking ahead. It feels better to see the star I'm going to jump to ahead, instead of having it behind me. It would also show some progression during travel, as stars a few of jumps ahead get closer.

Now, I have a feeling the gates are supposed to be close to properly aligned. Looking at the F11 map, often the angles between gates are about right. But many systems are kind of mirrored so that up is down.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Liu Ellens
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2011-11-17 15:55:46 UTC
An upright stargate Shocked yay! P

Well, they oughta know what to do with them hogs out there for shure.

Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#73 - 2011-11-17 15:56:18 UTC
TorTorden wrote:
Just have to say it since it's a huge pet bear of mine,,

Moving planets...


Bad idea. It would completely remove the whole "safe spots on the warp vector" thing. You need to think ideas through before you say them. Because first we'll have moving planets(that includes moons, so no more bookmarking POS towers, etc), then moving stargates because that wouldn't make sense either, then we'll have moons revolving around the planets on top of that. I can only imagine what would follow.

You can't make aesthetic changes like that just to "make sense" because they affect the actual gameplay in such a way that is potentially game breaking on several levels. EvE isn't a picture, nor is it a cinematic. The entire game is fictional to begin with. Why is everyone so obsessed with "making sense" in a science-fiction MMO? Explain to me how cloning "makes sense" but planets sitting still doesn't.



As for the topic, you guys are doing a fantastic job on the aesthetics. The cloud ring/nebulae look awesome, the warp tunnels are superb, flying through planets is a cool effect, yay for trails coming back, and while the stargates pointing to systems is incredibly trivial, it added a nice touch to the game for those of us who enjoy the minute details.

Immersion is one of the most important aspects of a video game. When a game makes you feel like everything is happening directly to you, that's when you, the developers, have achieved one of the biggest goals you have on your plate. And you're on the right track, at least in the aesthetics department. EvE has some gorgeous scenery that really makes you feel like you ARE the capsuleer. YOU are the one getting shot at and blowing things up. When your ship explodes, YOU pop out in a pod. And when you get podded, well, that was just the dude on the screen of course. Couldn't be you, you're in a station already.

Immersion.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#74 - 2011-11-17 15:57:49 UTC
Jason Edwards wrote:
In space, all directions are up.


Negative, the enemy's gate is always down.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Riffix
Synergistic Arbitrage
#75 - 2011-11-17 15:58:50 UTC
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Jack Dant wrote:
Absolutely love this.

Any chance we can get the same direction right in the cyno out effect? It would be cool to see a capital jump and be able to tell where it went.

Also, is there any relationship between the stargate location in a system and where it's going to? In a few systems I noticed stargates sending you down in the starmap are actually located high in the system map.


I'd like some answers to these same questions. A fleet of capitals jumping to a system should all zoom off in the same direction when they jump out together - that direction should be the destination system.

I really like the fact that you can see nearby stars now as well. But if I'm flying by gates, and can see the star system in the next constellation that I'm trying to reach to the south, then the gate to that system should be in the south of the system I'm in as well. I shouldn't normally have to warp in the complete opposite direction from a system to reach the gate that takes me to it. So please reposition the constellation and region gates (not the system gates - they 'orbit' planets) so that they are in line between the two stars they connect.

Lastly, things like the EVE Gate, Gununjagap (or whatever it's called), and all those areas of turbulent and impenetrable space should be visible in nearby systems. Since you can add individual stars to the skybox, do you have plans to add these other landmarks as well?

Good work, now keep it up!


THIS, all of it! Thanks for this change though. I've been hoping you'd make this change since 2003!!

Lead, Follow, or Get the #@$!@ Out of the Way.

Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2011-11-17 16:04:55 UTC
Zyrbalax III wrote:
Jason Edwards wrote:
In space, all directions are up.

but... but... "The enemy's gate is down!"


Knug LiDi wrote:
The enemy gate is down.


Curses! I was going to say that!
Ariane VoxDei
#77 - 2011-11-17 16:07:46 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Huh? In RL, the star Polaris, the north star, is 200 light years away and still easily visible. (Its an intrinsically bright star, a Cephied variable). The entire eve cluster is only 100 light years across. No jump should be so long as to hide its destination star.
RL physics aside, you have to understand why the current method has a few limitations.

1. It does not include all of K-space. Maybe it can be done, but there is a performance tradeoff that you have to ask the coders about.
2. it uses the x nearest, or within x LY. It does not make sure to include all the jump destinations, which in a relatively small number of cases means the destination system has not been mapped to the nebula.
A number of interregional jumps in 0.0 come to mind and part of the Jita-Amarr pipe.
It is however trivial to make sure it gets included.

Now if we could just get the nebulas redone - with much fewer random stars - we might begin to get a sense of where we are. There are simply too many (non-eve ones) to properly distinguish at the current level of detail (and prominense of eve stars).
Fritz Ionar
Electronic Scientific Recreational
#78 - 2011-11-17 16:11:48 UTC
Looks awsome!

Anvil44 wrote:
One thought: going from system A to system B that is to the "West" of system A does not necessarily mean that the stargate required to jump to system B should be on the "West" side of system A. This is due to the fact that the star gates were placed in a spot in space that has some sort of 'affinity' with the system you are jumping to, allowing for a jump gate to that system. This, of course, is if I remember some Eve lore I read when I first started looking at Eve (a few years before I actually started playing Eve).

So gate placement was supposed to = best spot to anchor jump gate to go to another system, not closest spot from current system to target system.

This!
hired goon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2011-11-17 16:16:25 UTC
I don't know about anyone else, but I value attention to detail in games above almost all else. It really displays a care for the game, and this latest change is exactly the kind of thing I'd love to see more of. Thanks CCP! Smile
Mark726
Project Compass Holdings
#80 - 2011-11-17 16:23:36 UTC
I am in LOVE with this idea. +1000000000

I also agree with the various other raising immersion ideas here, but I mostly just wanted to say THANK YOU :-D