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Third Party Developers License

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Author
Kelath Erebus
Galactic Imperium
#21 - 2014-06-06 04:49:46 UTC
Thank you for the update, overall I like the new agreement.

I am with Risingson in that I was also hoping that perhaps section 4.4 would contain verbiage allowing a developer to pay CCP some amount, percentage or combination to charge RL money to use their app or certain features of their app.. But being able to accept RL monetary donations and ad revenue is a lot better then only being able to accept in-game currency as was previously discussed, so I am happy with that.
Arkarn
DeathByDestruction
#22 - 2014-06-06 10:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkarn
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Risingson wrote:
Were there any thoughts on a paid dev license that would allow 3rd party apps to charge rl money ?


Not that I am aware of.


That is literally the most disappointing thing you could have possibly said. Time to abandon the idea of the massive EVE website myself and another developer have had planned and been working on since the dev licence was first announced about THREE years ago with the carrot on the stick of being able to monetize it.

Adverts simply will not be enough. Development time is far too expensive to make a paltry amount from advertising. Especially on an AJAX heavy project which drastically cuts ad impressions.

What a waste of three years of waiting and development time.
Risingson
#23 - 2014-06-06 12:37:23 UTC
I was already thinking i am the only one deeply disappointed.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#24 - 2014-06-06 16:38:46 UTC
Arkarn wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Risingson wrote:
Were there any thoughts on a paid dev license that would allow 3rd party apps to charge rl money ?


Not that I am aware of.


That is literally the most disappointing thing you could have possibly said. Time to abandon the idea of the massive EVE website myself and another developer have had planned and been working on since the dev licence was first announced about THREE years ago with the carrot on the stick of being able to monetize it.

Adverts simply will not be enough. Development time is far too expensive to make a paltry amount from advertising. Especially on an AJAX heavy project which drastically cuts ad impressions.

What a waste of three years of waiting and development time.



Verbage for proper money making was never going to be in a cookie cutter license.

If you want a license which allows you to charge for something, you need to talk to CCP Legal, to arrange a partnership.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Risingson
#25 - 2014-06-07 13:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Risingson
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Verbage for proper money making was never going to be in a cookie cutter license.

If you want a license which allows you to charge for something, you need to talk to CCP Legal, to arrange a partnership.


True. It was not in the first official draft years ago. Back then we were asked to write emails though. At least mine contained my thoughts about why i would like to charge money for parts of my services. Also monetizing work has some tradition in human society. Now reading they did not even think of it is highly de-motivating and tbh i am thinking on moving on (i don't think i will actually manage to fully break loose after 8 years but i am thinking of it and who knows).

About your second sentence. Yeah it has been that way. I am a private single person hobby coder who was hoping for an easy way to monetize his work to buy a new server, pay for its housing costs and ofc some shinies for my wife and kid. Easy as this. If i write CCP Legal about a partnership as a private person they will tell me to f**k off. Therefore i was hoping easy licensing including charging rl money would be introduced via the dev lic.
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#26 - 2014-06-07 14:57:19 UTC
Risingson wrote:
I am a private single person hobby coder who was hoping for an easy way to monetize his work to buy a new server, pay for its housing costs and ofc some shinies for my wife and kid. Easy as this.
These rather humble wishes (depending on your definition of shinies) should be affordable by donations. In my experience the EVE community is made up of mostly adults who are willing to donate for a good service. If your users are not willing to donate what makes you think they'd be willing to pay up-front?

Quote:
If i write CCP Legal about a partnership as a private person they will tell me to f**k off.
I suppose that would very much depend on the nature of the partnership you'd propose. I don't think they'd refuse just on the grounds of you not being a company.
Risingson
#27 - 2014-06-07 16:48:29 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
These rather humble wishes (depending on your definition of shinies) should be affordable by donations. In my experience the EVE community is made up of mostly adults who are willing to donate for a good service. If your users are not willing to donate what makes you think they'd be willing to pay up-front?


If anyone is willing to do anything or not is a totally different story. Without going into details of things the reason is that a rl money donation must not unlock features...

Quote:
[...] I suppose that would very much depend on the nature of the partnership you'd propose. I don't think they'd refuse just on the grounds of you not being a company.


Ok. Though i am quite sure it would come down to this it was an assessment on my part.
Do you know of any partnerships on a level i described ?
Scarna Jenari
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-06-07 20:13:17 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
Risingson wrote:
I am a private single person hobby coder who was hoping for an easy way to monetize his work to buy a new server, pay for its housing costs and ofc some shinies for my wife and kid. Easy as this.
These rather humble wishes (depending on your definition of shinies) should be affordable by donations. In my experience the EVE community is made up of mostly adults who are willing to donate for a good service. If your users are not willing to donate what makes you think they'd be willing to pay up-front?

While it is true that people do indeed donate for a good service, it is a very small percentage that do so. Most users of a website/application don't donate because they simply don't have to and from experience, it's less than 1%. I believe that third party developers should have the right to charge for their work. Every tool available supplements the experience of Eve where CCP have neither the time nor inclination to produce the tools that are currently available. And to be fair, the quality and support of these tools far surpasses anything that CCP could offer under their current regime. I'm of the opinion that this helps retain users and therefore the income of CCP.

What I would like to see is an agreement between CCP and a third party developer (TPD) pertaining to the ability for TPDs to charge for their work. One possible implementation would be as follows:
1. A legal agreement signed between CCP and TPD as long as TPD is legally permitted to enter into a contract and set up a trading bank account (either as an individual of consenting age or as an authorised representative of a legal entity such as an LLP or limited company).
2. CCP sets up a bank account specifically for third party developer usage. No TPD will be permitted access to this bank account except for the ability to deposit funds into it.
3. TPD can charge for their application as long as the funds acquired from selling that application are entered into the bank account belonging to CCP. Each TBD will be assigned a reference number used to distinguish their own application and used as a payment reference into the bank account.
4. It will be the responsibility of TPDs to ensure that their software licensing provisions are in place, that the TPD agreement with CCP is valid and that sales are entered into CCP's bank account. Failure to do so will nullify any agreement and CCP should take action to protect their IP (as the case is now).
5. CCP take a proportion of the TPD application sales as their royalty/commission/fee payment from the TPD bank account and transfer it to their own corporate bank account. This proportion should be written into the agreement from the start and changing such percentage should require a notice term and a cancellation provision.
6. The balance of the TPD bank account is paid to the TPD to an account nominated in the legal agreement. TPD will be responsible for reporting any income as appropriate to the authorities under their jurisdiction. CCP will be responsible for any income received as royalties/commissions/fees.

I'm not saying the above is perfect by any means but maybe it's a starting point for some discussion.
Risingson
#29 - 2014-06-08 10:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Risingson
I was thinking of a yearly payment to ccp for being allowed to charge. Nothing more to manage.
Iam Farve
DH consulting
#30 - 2014-06-25 01:24:50 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Seith Kali wrote:
Quote:
At a later date, CCP may choose to begin charging fees or collecting royalties for the

rights granted herein. However, CCP shall provide Developer of no less than ninety

(90) calendar days’ notice prior to doing so, and in accordance with Section 6.4,

Developer may terminate this Agreement upon written notice to CCP.


Good luck.


Indeed. This is a nice bait-and-switch clause.

"Please spend a ton of time and effort to make a shiny app that supports our product and adds value to it. Then pray that we do not alter the deal. Much."


Without that clause, CCP could change its mind, charge us a fee for the license and we would only have 7 days to accept it or not like any other changes in the license agreements.
Arkarn
DeathByDestruction
#31 - 2014-07-01 17:15:23 UTC
Judging by the fact there's been no feedback for the last month from any devs I assume we'll be waiting another year or so for any word on the developer licence, and it'll probably still not suit most developer's needs or concerns.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2014-07-01 17:31:57 UTC
Since we have no intention of putting this license into effect anytime real soon there has been no need to act on the feedback in any kind of rapid fashion. We put it out for review as you guys were asking to see it.

This will come into effect first when we open the SSO signups to everyone, and before that happens we will be sure to respond to feedback.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Veetor Nara
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#33 - 2014-08-13 19:15:23 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Since we have no intention of putting this license into effect anytime real soon there has been no need to act on the feedback in any kind of rapid fashion. We put it out for review as you guys were asking to see it.

This will come into effect first when we open the SSO signups to everyone, and before that happens we will be sure to respond to feedback.


I know this may sound childish, but I think a lot of us have no experience in reading legal text. Is there going to be an' easy to understand' (and by that I mean a TLDR) version like the ones on https://creativecommons.org/choose/ ?

Wollari
Dirt Nap Squad
#34 - 2014-08-18 21:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Wollari
Due to recent events: quote from another post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4925830#post4925830 I'm not sure if the current state of the license is already covering this topic. I know that the license covers "no benefits for money", but I'm not sure if this covers revenue from 3rd parties. Maybe the license you get updated to make this clear as well


  • A player should not get any benefits (isk, features, etc) by using a service that creates revenue for the developer (example: click on banner ads, affiliate links, etc).

DOTLAN EveMaps | Your out-of-game map, navigation toolset, sov database, etc. since 2008

omgdutch2005
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-10-08 20:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: omgdutch2005
can we still sign it somewere?

I made 2 non-profit soundboards(using no eve sounds at most the logo of a eve player..), and google play tought it was funny to insta-ban me for copyright infridgement and all kind of stuff....

without any complaints the apps are delte (and all other applications i had uploaded to google play :/

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Developer_License_Agreement - wiki is dead
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2014-10-15 12:44:43 UTC
New, and probably final, version of the license is up: https://developers.testeveonline.com/resource/license-agreement

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Risingson
#37 - 2014-10-19 14:14:05 UTC
May i accept real life currency payments to remove ads from an app ?
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