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Petition to keep loot spew.

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Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#61 - 2014-05-28 04:34:55 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Xercodo wrote:

Did you know that when they announced this at 2013 fanfest to be coming in Oddy they mentioned that it was a mining prototype idea to kill bots?

Actually you might want to rewatch that video again. All they did was show a few prototype concepts for a more engaging mining game, none of which were concrete. Flying crosses on a screen (Or any other easily recognisable symbology) are also quite bottable. If a computer can recognise a mosquito on a video camera and target it accurately enough to shoot it with a laser (Look up Star Wars Mosquito defence system, it's crazy), then a computer can recognise flying crosses on your screen and simulate mouse clicks appropriately.


Loot spew was shown to us in the form we see it n now, but during that introduction it was mentioned it was originally a mining concept. It wasn't actually shown with any mining stuff. It was only a side note said once briefly.

The Drake is a Lie
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#62 - 2014-05-28 05:06:04 UTC
I wonder if they could use the loot spew mechanics to simplify tractoring and looting.
- Wrecks drift off slowly instead of sitting still
- clicking them activates the tractor beam
- range dependent on the beam
- only one wreck per fitted beam
- once in range the wreck gets processed
- processing involves adding the loot and any rolled salvage to the cargo
- salvage roll is modified by amount and quality of salvagers, skill and salvage drones in orbit

Needs more work but that could be done.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#63 - 2014-05-28 07:55:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Abrazzar wrote:
I wonder if they could use the loot spew mechanics to simplify tractoring and looting.
- Wrecks drift off slowly instead of sitting still
- clicking them activates the tractor beam
- range dependent on the beam
- only one wreck per fitted beam
- once in range the wreck gets processed
- processing involves adding the loot and any rolled salvage to the cargo
- salvage roll is modified by amount and quality of salvagers, skill and salvage drones in orbit

Needs more work but that could be done.


Don't even dare to think that the loot spew tractor beam is a regular tractor beam.

The loot spew tractor beam indeed tracts the loot (without any high slot taken, its magic!), but the loot goes into your cargo after a defined duration whether or not the loot had time to reach you. And even if it reaches you before the end of this duration, it will still wait like a dumass, while you see the other loots going away, frustrated...

It has always been a very bad mecanic, just like loot spew itself, because :

  • It gives no room to player skill. You can skillfully position your ship near a good amount of loot spew to collect it in an efficient manner, you'll get the same amount of loot than a guy who just stood still clicking the spews one after the other.
  • It asks you to bring friends but said friends cannot participate in the hacking.
  • It asks you to bring friends in a competitive environment. Because exploration is about finding the right location at the right timezone and being alone in the area. So much for cooperation. Bring friends? I'd rather say bring alts.
  • Just like the hacking, the content of the containers is enterly independant from player skill, and entierly random. While hacking, you can fail not because you're bad, but because the layout you found and the way you did it was solutionless. The loot spew, at best you can focus on certain container types to maximize your chances of getting the loot, but since you often cannot loot all the containers of two types, it will still be random. Fun fact, even the first hacking that you have to make during the new player experience, can be solutionless if you click on the wrong thing.


So yeah, loot spew mechanic will soon be erased from the game and hopefully won't ever come back again, because its just a bad mechanic. Please let it RIP and don't try to bring it back up :D

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2014-05-28 08:24:04 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
Nami Kumamato wrote:
Naomi Hale wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Also yes people still do the Data and Relic sites... there's in the region of 65,000 hacking attempts in sites per day on TQ. Smile

I knew it! I said I felt like I was being watched during hacking and it's true! They were all like "you're crazy, no one is there, no one is watching" but here's proof, now I see! Now I get it. Now the pieces are falling into place: The office, the promotion, that dwarf in my book club who steals my opinions. It's all coming together now!...


You wouldn't be much of an explorer if paranoia wasn't tightly lodged in your skull :D.
It defines us!

Well to use the old adage "It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you." We just got that proof here. They are watching you... Big smile


Did that asteroid just MOVE?! Did it? Frak, frak, frak!
Oh snap it DID move - warp out warp out warp out!
*wakes up in cold sweat*

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#65 - 2014-05-28 08:26:01 UTC
Nami Kumamato wrote:

Did that asteroid just MOVE?! Did it? Frak, frak, frak!
Oh snap it DID move - warp out warp out warp out!
*wakes up in cold sweat*


For double paranoia, try being the "asteroid" ;)

BTW just noticed your sig Big smile

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-05-28 08:46:28 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Nami Kumamato wrote:

Did that asteroid just MOVE?! Did it? Frak, frak, frak!
Oh snap it DID move - warp out warp out warp out!
*wakes up in cold sweat*


For double paranoia, try being the "asteroid" ;)

BTW just noticed your sig Big smile


True art is to be admired. :D

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2014-05-28 09:21:36 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Loot spew is said to be going away.

This mechanic is a lot of fun and makes it more interesting with friends.

I like that i helps to have a more agile ship and have to prioritiez what you want and not just be given eveything automatically for beating the hacking game.


Who else will miss loot spew?

Um...fun with friends?

Friend 1: Ohhh I got carbon, what'd you get?
Friend 2: Oh I got metal scraps! Score!
Friend 1: holy crap, I got Data sheets!!!!1111eleven1!!

No one is going to miss loot spew. No one.

That sounds like a list of gifts Santa leaves to naughty Capsuleers. What have you been doing to so offend EVE Santa?


I got 5 corpses as a present after I defecated into his lunch cantaloupe.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#68 - 2014-05-28 11:44:09 UTC
I'll clarify my opinion a bit....

The loot spew is a little bit cool as an effect, and I could see it being useful for various explosive loot drops.

What I hate is the fact that it despawns quickly and becomes a frantic fight against a poor UI with latency thrown in for good measure.

What it *should* do is slow down over time (we fly in space gravy, remember?) and perhaps despawn at regular can/wreck despawn times, or at most after several minutes - not seconds.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Nantwig Mutbrecht
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-05-28 11:55:18 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
You can try this out on Sisi right now. To answer some specific questions the loot in the cans is now 70% of what it was. We doubled the loot with Odyssey. Blueprints will still drop at the post-Odyssey rate though. We'll also be keeping an eye on things as they progress as redoing the loot balance for Exploration sites is on our list of things to improve. The Poteque 'Prospector' Environmental Analysis EY-1005 implant has had it's loot scattering bonus replaced with a +5 coherence bonus to Data and Relic analyzers.

Also yes people still do the Data and Relic sites... there's in the region of 65,000 hacking attempts in sites per day on TQ. Smile

The Test Server thread for feedback from Sisi playtesting is here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=345924


could you tell us how many datacores are produced by research & Development Agents every day?
that would be enormously interesting to know.
ctx2007
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2014-05-28 12:28:13 UTC
After reading the thread, seems people want to see the back of it.

You only realise you life has been a waste of time, when you wake up dead.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#71 - 2014-05-28 12:54:51 UTC
Nami Kumamato wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Nami Kumamato wrote:
As a suggestion - you should remove the loot spew mechanic and INSTEAD add certain "containers" in the hacking mini-game that relate to the valuable loot inside.
For example: a shard contains one Esoteric Symmetry and nondescript junk - inside the hacking minigame add a "container" of sorts that once hacked will grant you the ability to loot the Esoteric Symmetry, while just simply going for the Mainframe will allow you to loot only the nondescript junk inside.
This will add time and more decision-making to the mini-game to compensate for the loss of time and decision making of the removal of the loot spew, while still keeping things relevant. Just my 0.02 ISK

I like this suggestion, but only if this improves the droprate.. not at current droprate.


I'd totally sacrifice improved loot for more sites.
Last night I've went 13 jumps without a Site. Talk about a dry run...


I've gone at least 40-50 some days.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#72 - 2014-05-28 12:57:32 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
You can try this out on Sisi right now. To answer some specific questions the loot in the cans is now 70% of what it was. We doubled the loot with Odyssey. Blueprints will still drop at the post-Odyssey rate though. We'll also be keeping an eye on things as they progress as redoing the loot balance for Exploration sites is on our list of things to improve. The Poteque 'Prospector' Environmental Analysis EY-1005 implant has had it's loot scattering bonus replaced with a +5 coherence bonus to Data and Relic analyzers.

Also yes people still do the Data and Relic sites... there's in the region of 65,000 hacking attempts in sites per day on TQ. Smile

The Test Server thread for feedback from Sisi playtesting is here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=345924



It is very cool that the implant is not going to be worthless now.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#73 - 2014-05-28 13:11:08 UTC
Nami Kumamato wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:


Also yes people still do the Data and Relic sites... there's in the region of 65,000 hacking attempts in sites per day on TQ. Smile

The Test Server thread for feedback from Sisi playtesting is here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=345924


Proudly doing my part :D

But has CCP any plans on balancing the Relic sites?
Currently Relic sites in High and Low are worthless even to a new player, compared to a Data site.
From a Low relic site you would stand to gain tops 1-2 mil. ISK (that mythical faction blueprint has an astronomical droprate so it's not even worth taking into account) while a Data nets you 5-10 mil. ISK so most explorers simply don't bother with them .
Shouldn't you guys take a look at that and balance them out also?



Seriously, why should HS relic and data sites be worth anything? They are completely riskless. Since eve is supposed to be risk v. reward and HS relic and data sites are completely riskless, it is totally appropriate that they are worth next to nothing.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Naomi Hale
#74 - 2014-05-28 14:17:58 UTC
I hope they keep the mechanic/code for the 'loot spew' in the game.

I think part of it's problem was in changing an existing feature (exploration) rather than it being part of an all new activity. If it had come in as a component of say comet mining I don't think there would have been as much negative feedback to it, still some but not as much.

There's nothing fundamentally work with the mechanic, just maybe not in exploration sites.

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.
Mattpat139 Sukarala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-05-28 15:51:51 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Shederov Blood wrote:
NOOOOO!! They should be adding loot spew to other areas of the game, not taking it away. Sad

A miner fires a strip miner at an asteroid... ORE SPEW!

Salvage a wreck? SALVAGE SPEW!

Destroy another ship in combat? No more 50% chance of loot drop... 100% loot in spew cans!


Did you know that when they announced this at 2013 fanfest to be coming in Oddy they mentioned that it was a mining prototype idea to kill bots?

Well, it could be used as a mechanic for outpost destruction: Pop the outpost; LOOTSPEW !!!!!


why do i want this?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5376912#post5376912
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2014-05-28 15:58:00 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
You can try this out on Sisi right now. To answer some specific questions the loot in the cans is now 70% of what it was. We doubled the loot with Odyssey. Blueprints will still drop at the post-Odyssey rate though. We'll also be keeping an eye on things as they progress as redoing the loot balance for Exploration sites is on our list of things to improve. The Poteque 'Prospector' Environmental Analysis EY-1005 implant has had it's loot scattering bonus replaced with a +5 coherence bonus to Data and Relic analyzers.

Also yes people still do the Data and Relic sites... there's in the region of 65,000 hacking attempts in sites per day on TQ. Smile

The Test Server thread for feedback from Sisi playtesting is here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=345924

If you choose to revisit this thread, cna you all look at making the interfaces degrade over time with no repair?

As they are, interface BPCs are almost as worthless as carbon due to everyone already having one and only ever needing that one. not to mention with the parts you also have to pick up from Data sites just to build them, its less isk per m3/hr than mining veldspar in highsec with a noobship.
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#77 - 2014-05-28 20:56:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulous Rod
The more real-time interactive mechanics, the better.

People who are used to everything being handed to them should HTFU.

There was nothing functionally wrong with it. It was another cool idea that is getting destroyed via catering to the masses. What?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#78 - 2014-05-28 21:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Fabulous Rod wrote:
The more real-time interactive mechanics, the better.

People who are used to everything being handed to them should HTFU.

There was nothing functionally wrong with it. It was another cool idea that is getting destroyed via catering to the masses. What?

I think you're barking at the wrong crowd if you think CCP is in the business of catering to the masses, or if the EvE playing community represent the masses either.

There are always going to be people who disagree with things, unfortunately on this issue, your view that the mechanic isn't flawed is not shared by CCP or the general opinion in the community. I would bet that CCPs decision to change the mechanic has been more influenced by the metrics they collect, than player whining on the forum.

Clearly they identified a problem since the introduction of the spew mechanic.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-05-28 21:30:16 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Seriously, why should HS relic and data sites be worth anything? They are completely riskless. Since eve is supposed to be risk v. reward and HS relic and data sites are completely riskless, it is totally appropriate that they are worth next to nothing.

Please re-read what Nami said. The relic vs data site payout isn't balanced with each other. Don't make this a sec vs sec thing.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#80 - 2014-05-28 21:53:31 UTC
Remove loot spew and hacking game from exploration.

Uninstall Odyssey

Bring RATS back to exploration sites. Lowest value sites have no rats to allow noobs to explore.
Higher value sites will have RATS - better boats and /or teamwork will be needed.

CCP likes teamwork so this should work nicely.