Ships & Modules

Missile won't be in the sniper group that's for sure. It most likely won't get into the most shiny fleets but might get spots elsewhere. The damage is still delayed and the lack of any application bonus means you will have to burn all your rigs on rigors and some mids on TP. Add a MWD and you are left with 3 meds to do your shield tank. You will have to go at least moderately shiny or bust.

What will kill it is the presence of much better boat for the same/lower price.

Given that there are HQ fits with only single slot shield tanks that's not necesarily a problem...
However the delayed damage is going to make them sub-par in the sniper groups and, competing with the Mach's and 'mares they're unlikely to find a place... And they lack the utility of the Vindicator, so they aren't going to replace them in the close-range group.
If you're considering the Barghest for Incursions therefore, my advice would have to be to train Amarr BS and Lasers... and buy a Nightmare.*

*Assuming that the missile focussed ship indicates a Caldari skilled pilot.

Having flown one on sisi I can say the delay is negligible, the tight pg/cap will be the limiting factor, and the low dps (for a pirate bs)

All HQ fits will fit an MWD (the Nightmare may be able to get away with a high meta AB after the change (and I look forward to the reduced need to find a cap buddy that will offer)) because the distance between gates is significant - for Vanguards IIRC such mods aren't needed.

As an incursion FC, I won't take them. They don't have the deeps to make them worth the missiles issues, apply that DPS poorly without massive support reworking as far as fleet ewar balance. Points against them:

1: The base hp numbers are meh for a pirate BS
2: only 7 launchers with a 25% damage bonus @ max skills and no application bonus
3: delayed damage, hell in contests
4: No usefull EWAR bonus
5: slippery slope for allowing in missiles in good communities

Points in their favor
1: non-stick coating.

Well from the POV from a channel that is actually looking for good missile pilots:

For HQ:

- the delayed dps only makes them practical at CQC targets, wasting the hole damage at range advantage
- raw dps compared other high dps close range options isn't that stellar on most hulls
- they are less effective in contests by the delayed damage
- proper painting and webing on targets can be a problem in many fleets, reducing the theoretical dps output at medium range most of the time

For VGs:

- standard shield doctrines are based around a alpha setup with a lot of sensor boosters, missile hulls fit hardly into that concept, since there is a lack of painting at medium range and a lack of webing at close range(to field more sensor boosters and TCs) and to powerful painting/webbing is even contra productive during contests
- The only site where flight time is hardly a issue(NCOs) are the least flown by standard shield setups(by the lack of webs and painters) and most of the missile damage would be wasted by shooting frigs

OIC uses missile hulls(armor CNR and fleet phoon) for VGs, because our doctrine in more focused on max dps(by a very big sentry focus) and max tackle/painting to even one volley frigs with sentry based DPS and archive maximal results at medium and close range with sentry DPS what also works surprisingly good in contests. In such a environment, missile hulls actually work fairly well, applied dps is nearly 100% at medium and close range with fury CM and since the fleet concept is more build around raw dps than alpha, flight time becomes less of a issue against ranged targets.

I think WTM takes shield fitted missile hulls, however not really as preferred option.

So why does OIC look for missile hulls?

- the fleet phoon and rattlesnake are not pure missile platforms but split weapon systems, what is less of a dps loss during contests, since the focus fire of drones or drones + artillery still deals respectable dps and alpha even if a missile volley ends up wasted(and the missile pilot has to pay more attention to make his volleys and alpha count, it is actually a lot harder to play with a missile hull in contests)
- they reduce the need for remote tracking links in the fleet, what means more free links for the remaining gunships
- I want to see if we can really utilize the highest medium range damage dealer in the game(fleet phoon) properly
- missile hulls don't need TCs, what allows to use the meds for painters and webs and fit more TCs on the turret hulls
- missile hulls are more flexible and can be utilized against CQC and Sniper targets, what allows shifting DPS as needed and reduces waiting time on each other in a sniper heavy or CQC heavy fleet composition
- highest available medium and sniper range dps in the game

Since I did build OIC from the start on a sentry heavy VG doctrine, using missile hulls actually makes a lot of sense for the Assault doctrine, because sniper spots can be chosen more in the benefit of sentry dps and gleam/quake range without losing to much dps on the sniper targets, a lot more dps that can be switched fluid between close range and sniper range(like required in the last pocked of the NCN) and more tracking links for the remaining turret BS(what is a main issue if you field 3 AB Onis, you only have 9, while you can have 12 or even 15 with 3 scimis in a shield fleet).

Overall I think the concept is very interesting, the missile hulls can do very impressing dps at all ranges and the other benefits(more utility, freeing up tracking links) look very good on paper to create a very effective assault doctrine.

Edit: Nearly forget the gurista BS, well I have to see the dps and fitting options on it, but I guess it will be a lot less then with the fleet phoon or rattlesnake, by the lack of sentry dps what overall reduces a amount of the advantages over the other hulls or pure gunships, at least for what I have in mind and given that most HQ and VG doctrines are build on different goals, I don't see much potential of the hull to become more accepted then the other missile hulls in other fleets.

Mach.
T1 em rig, t2 burst rig, pith A invuln
Geno set too.

I haven't taken missile ship in fleet for 2 years, not going to start taking them now.

I would rather take Navy Harby over Golem even though we only use Marauders.

Why in hell you say raven has better application? The battleship with application bonus is the typhoon.

CNR has explosion radius bonus (the more useful)
Typhoon has explosion velocity bonus (a bit less useful)
Regular raven has just RoF and missile speed bonuses (RoF is just base dps bonus and missile speed is .. well .. so-so bonus in pve)
Navy Typhoon has just missile damage and projectile RoF bonuses.

The Mordus BS extraordinary speed bonus means that if there is more than one thing shooting at a single target it wastes less firepower. For a single Mordus BS the missiles can travel ~170 km before next volley leaves launchers. But single Mordus BS is not that optimal to have around in incursions.

Problem is dps. Even with fury (which has appliaction issues against incursion targets) you end up below Nightmare / Marachiel which apply their damage instantly and can be good at frigs in distance (unlike missiles).