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Supers Can't Disappear
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#181 - 2014-11-21 22:29:56 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
How about just letting supers/titans dock and then balance them accordingly? They loose some power in some way or another, and the owners aren't punished for owning them.

Part of their implied balance is the denial of the safety and security of the ability to dock.

These may be currently treated as status symbols for the wealthy, but they were denied docking ability for a reason.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2014-11-21 22:43:37 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Part of their implied balance is the denial of the safety and security of the ability to dock.

These may be currently treated as status symbols for the wealthy, but they were denied docking ability for a reason.

And alts have completely negated this check on their power. In fact, those same alts help them somewhat mitigate the recent changes to jump mechanics.

Supers are still just as powerful as they have always been. They just can't day trip across the map any more. I feel that adjustments to the ships themselves are needed. As part of that, why not let them dock, and balance their power accordingly.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#183 - 2014-11-21 22:49:32 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Part of their implied balance is the denial of the safety and security of the ability to dock.

These may be currently treated as status symbols for the wealthy, but they were denied docking ability for a reason.

And alts have completely negated this check on their power. In fact, those same alts help them somewhat mitigate the recent changes to jump mechanics.

Supers are still just as powerful as they have always been. They just can't day trip across the map any more. I feel that adjustments to the ships themselves are needed. As part of that, why not let them dock, and balance their power accordingly.

How much of a penalty do you think is appropriate, in exchange for their losing that risk aspect of denied docking?

You may say the risk has been negated already, but this convenience / risk change is still going to be significant.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#184 - 2014-11-21 22:58:24 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

How much of a penalty do you think is appropriate, in exchange for their losing that risk aspect of denied docking?

You may say the risk has been negated already, but this convenience / risk change is still going to be significant.


How much of a penalty do you think they have now? Compared to a carrier for instance?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#185 - 2014-11-21 23:43:15 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

How much of a penalty do you think is appropriate, in exchange for their losing that risk aspect of denied docking?

You may say the risk has been negated already, but this convenience / risk change is still going to be significant.


How much of a penalty do you think they have now? Compared to a carrier for instance?


I believe you made a point about how you feel concerning alts who hold supers offline, so the regular character can do other things while the super is securely untouchable.

Quoting for reference:
Tappits wrote:
And will people stop going on about “LOG OFF ALTS” They are the aids and no respecting alliance allow/don’t moan about you doing dumb things like that… only scrubs have holding alts.


I figure that holding alts are an emergent gameplay aspect, rather than one the devs deliberately planned.
How well it works, and whether it creates more risk or less for player's supers and titans, I won't debate here.

That said, they clearly exist, and many do use them.

Antillie Sa'Kan believes these alts have effectively negated the risk impact of denied docking rights.

He may be right, I would expect the individual circumstances determine how safe it is.

The number one aspect penalty is, in my opinion, convenience.
I see this is manifested in two ways:

1. Can't be used at an outpost for freight movement, or readily available loading of assembled ships to it's hangar.
As an additional detail, market purchases always require a second ship to move to the super.
2. Security is less certain, since you are either behind POS shields or not, and bumping happens for various reasons.
That, to me, means you can't ignore the client as long as it is online with the ship. Too big of a risk.

Being able to use a super that can dock in an Outpost?
A clever pilot can load a lot into that fleet hangar, and SMB, this could rival a freighter under the correct circumstances.
Maybe you wouldn't use a super to move things, but it would be possible.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#186 - 2014-11-21 23:49:44 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Axe Coldon wrote:
I would like to see the reverse. Supers should be able to dock in stations!


i would like a blowjob from Mila Kunis, but i don`t see either of that happening in the near future Ugh


You just are not wishing hard enough.

Perhaps supers will be able to dock when we get destructible stations. That way when you go away from the game for a month, you can lose absolutely EVERYTHING!

OP, your idea is bad because Eve is not real, it is a game. When I leave the game for a few hours or days, I should not have to worry that much about my stuff.


Thats the problem (in my opinion) with supers. They have become a personalized asset, rather than a corp/alliance asset. Im pretty sure CCP's overall idea with them is that they should belong to the alliance (as it should take an alliance-wide effort to produce one). Nowadays, it seems like almost every Titan/Super is a play toy for those that were able get one for themselves.

If the OP's idea comes to pass, it would truly mean that the Titan/Super becomes a corp/alliance asset, as you'd have different people manning it throughout the day, or at least different people in charge of keeping it safe throughout the day.

+1

Cedric
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#187 - 2014-11-21 23:56:14 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

The reason this proposal is so shortsighted:

1.) Supers are NOT Corp / Alliance assets. Pragmatically, whomever is piloting the super is the owner of the super, no matter what effort went into obtaining it. Everything in a POS is a corp asset, as the items within are ALWAYS accessible by various members of a corp. Your proposal would force individuals whom own a super to suddenly share an extremely large-value asset with their corp members. Forcing players to give their high-value personal assets to a corp will cause a LOT of problems!

2.) Other stuff...




I've highlighted what the real problem is. Supers/Titans SHOULD be corp assets. It is a bad thing that individuals own them.

Cedric
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#188 - 2014-11-22 01:09:01 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:


I've highlighted what the real problem is. Supers/Titans SHOULD be corp assets. It is a bad thing that individuals own them.


There are corps in Eve that the corps themselves funded supers, BDCI in PL for instance has quite a few Titans and supers that were paid for by corp, But you still need personal EvE accounts to fly them.

Old Titans were alot of the time paid for by corps or alliances but as time has gone on single people have been able to accumulate enough isk to buy/ build them solo.

There are people in the game who have more isk than allot of corps. does that mean they should be excluded from a part of the game?

If you really what supers and titans to be less safe but in a change that's actually possible with the current game mechanics would be to force the use of POS passwords on every POS in the game even if its a corp pos, to get in you have to have the password.
And you could even make it so to change the password you have to know the password (this makes pos's secure for single people inside corps) and the only way to change the password without knowing the original would be to destroy the pos and put another up.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2014-11-22 01:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Being able to use a super that can dock in an Outpost?
A clever pilot can load a lot into that fleet hangar, and SMB, this could rival a freighter under the correct circumstances.
Maybe you wouldn't use a super to move things, but it would be possible.

Given the massive bonus to jump fatigue that all freighters have, I don't think this will be an issues as freighters will still be better in this role due to the speed at which they can cross long distances.
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