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Another word about balance

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Richard Lohengrin
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
#1 - 2014-05-22 10:16:59 UTC
I'm going to ask you a very old question - how long injustice will take place in EVE?
How long we are going to tolerate impunity of suicide-gankers?
How long our universe will stay the paradise for griefers?

You are playing EVE. You spend your time and money. But some special characters flying an air-cheap destroyers are able to ruin everything. Ruin without any penalty and you will stay without any compensation. Using a very simple logic - you are paying money for subscription just to make someone else have fun in the game.

Do you like it? Do you like to waste your time and money? CCP is ok with it. Maybe they are people with heavy childhood, having their lunchboxes often taken away by hooligans. But are we the same then?

If you consider i'm sad - you're wrong. I'm tired. I find this boring and not funny. I hope non-CCP EVE will appear shortly. Free, opensource and clean.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-05-22 10:20:24 UTC
Yawn, oh I'm sorry is your rant over?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Richard Lohengrin
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
#3 - 2014-05-22 10:24:10 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Yawn, oh I'm sorry is your rant over?


Yep, feel free to comment. Cool
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#4 - 2014-05-22 10:25:21 UTC
Before you leave, can I have your stuff?

Seriously though, concerning your "idea", suicide ganking has always been a part of Eve and it will remain a part of Eve. Highsec isn't there to be completely safe, the only place you're safe is in station.
That's the base line.

If you can't take the idea that other people might want to **** in your sandbox, then this isn't the game for you, because that was the original idea behind Eve, and the thing that makes it so interesting. It's that people can and will be absolute bastards to each other.

That said, there are plenty of ways to defend yourself against being suicide ganked. Don't fly an overly expensive ship, pay attention to local/dscan and basically just think about what you're doing and the odds of you being suicide ganked decrease dramatically.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#5 - 2014-05-22 10:28:06 UTC
If you'd ever been in a mining fleet when a group of catalysts landed you'd know how hilarious 100 hobs can be.
Richard Lohengrin
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
#6 - 2014-05-22 10:29:01 UTC
Arden Elenduil wrote:
Before you leave, can I have your stuff?

Seriously though, concerning your "idea", suicide ganking has always been a part of Eve and it will remain a part of Eve. Highsec isn't there to be completely safe, the only place you're safe is in station.
That's the base line.

If you can't take the idea that other people might want to **** in your sandbox, then this isn't the game for you, because that was the original idea behind Eve, and the thing that makes it so interesting. It's that people can and will be absolute bastards to each other.

That said, there are plenty of ways to defend yourself against being suicide ganked. Don't fly an overly expensive ship, pay attention to local/dscan and basically just think about what you're doing and the odds of you being suicide ganked decrease dramatically.


I'm curious about numbers. How many people playing EVE find suicide-ganking funny and how many find it's not?
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#7 - 2014-05-22 10:45:24 UTC
+1 vote for ganking is fun.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#8 - 2014-05-22 11:10:19 UTC
Richard Lohengrin wrote:
I'm going to ask you a very old question - how long injustice will take place in EVE?
How long we are going to tolerate impunity of suicide-gankers?
How long our universe will stay the paradise for griefers?

You are playing EVE. You spend your time and money. But some special characters flying an air-cheap destroyers are able to ruin everything. Ruin without any penalty and you will stay without any compensation. Using a very simple logic - you are paying money for subscription just to make someone else have fun in the game.

Do you like it? Do you like to waste your time and money? CCP is ok with it. Maybe they are people with heavy childhood, having their lunchboxes often taken away by hooligans. But are we the same then?

If you consider i'm sad - you're wrong. I'm tired. I find this boring and not funny. I hope non-CCP EVE will appear shortly. Free, opensource and clean.


CONCORD PUNISHES THE GUILTY, IT DOES NOT PROTECT

You have totally misinterpreted what high security space means. It means HIGH security, not COMPLETE security.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#9 - 2014-05-22 11:10:56 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
+1 vote for ganking is fun.


+2

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Velicitia
XS Tech
#10 - 2014-05-22 11:12:34 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Richard Lohengrin wrote:
I'm going to ask you a very old question - how long injustice will take place in EVE?
How long we are going to tolerate impunity of suicide-gankers?
How long our universe will stay the paradise for griefers?

You are playing EVE. You spend your time and money. But some special characters flying an air-cheap destroyers are able to ruin everything. Ruin without any penalty and you will stay without any compensation. Using a very simple logic - you are paying money for subscription just to make someone else have fun in the game.

Do you like it? Do you like to waste your time and money? CCP is ok with it. Maybe they are people with heavy childhood, having their lunchboxes often taken away by hooligans. But are we the same then?

If you consider i'm sad - you're wrong. I'm tired. I find this boring and not funny. I hope non-CCP EVE will appear shortly. Free, opensource and clean.


CONCORD PUNISHES THE GUILTY, IT DOES NOT PROTECT

You have totally misinterpreted what high security space means. It means HIGH security, not COMPLETE security.


Also this ... and they punish when you accidentally a blue Oops... (blah blah "safety" ... fly red or GB2WOWBlink)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-05-22 11:23:38 UTC
destroying unarmed ships wouldn't be fun to me unless part of a war in which case then they are fair game.
Richard Lohengrin
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
#12 - 2014-05-22 11:30:03 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
not COMPLETE security.


It's not about security, it's about justice. You did not read first post.
Alexei Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
#13 - 2014-05-22 12:17:04 UTC
Richard Lohengrin wrote:
I'm going to ask you a very old question - how long injustice will take place in EVE?
How long we are going to tolerate impunity of suicide-gankers?
How long our universe will stay the paradise for griefers?

You are playing EVE. You spend your time and money. But some special characters flying an air-cheap destroyers are able to ruin everything. Ruin without any penalty and you will stay without any compensation. Using a very simple logic - you are paying money for subscription just to make someone else have fun in the game.

Do you like it? Do you like to waste your time and money? CCP is ok with it. Maybe they are people with heavy childhood, having their lunchboxes often taken away by hooligans. But are we the same then?

If you consider i'm sad - you're wrong. I'm tired. I find this boring and not funny. I hope non-CCP EVE will appear shortly. Free, opensource and clean.



Hello,

please consider of handing me over all your stuff if you decide to leave Eve. That would make me very happy.
And yes, suicide gankers are a pain in the ass, but thats game mechanics, deal with it.
You can do something about it in many ways, like selling kill rights for under a million ISK. Or killing them yourself.
Eve is a sandbox after all.
Richard Lohengrin
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
#14 - 2014-05-22 12:27:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Lohengrin
Alexei Stryker wrote:


Hello,

please consider of handing me over all your stuff if you decide to leave Eve. That would make me very happy.
And yes, suicide gankers are a pain in the ass, but thats game mechanics, deal with it.
You can do something about it in many ways, like selling kill rights for under a million ISK. Or killing them yourself.
Eve is a sandbox after all.


Suicide gankers are not a part of game mechanics. They are obvious griefers, but CCP like to dig a grave for EVE even deeper, taking their side.

Killing them DOES NOT MAKE any sense. Just because those characters are created only for suicide purpose and will never pilot any valuable ships.

Eve is not a pure sandbox. Pure sanbox means no Concord, no high-sec, no market, only a crowd of monkeys killing each other with their noobships. Every second, every minute. Until they go totally crazy or fall asleep.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-05-22 12:31:30 UTC
Richard Lohengrin wrote:
Alexei Stryker wrote:


Hello,

please consider of handing me over all your stuff if you decide to leave Eve. That would make me very happy.
And yes, suicide gankers are a pain in the ass, but thats game mechanics, deal with it.
You can do something about it in many ways, like selling kill rights for under a million ISK. Or killing them yourself.
Eve is a sandbox after all.


Suicide gankers are not a part of game mechanics. They are obvious griefers, but CCP like to dig a grave for EVE even deeper, taking their side.

Killing them DOES NOT MAKE any sense. Just because those characters are created only for suicide purpose and will never pilot any valuable ships.


They've always been a part of EVE. They just weren't as prevalent before can-flipping went away. It's the increase in high-sec safety which led to it being so common.
Richard Lohengrin
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
#16 - 2014-05-22 12:56:48 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

They've always been a part of EVE. They just weren't as prevalent before can-flipping went away. It's the increase in high-sec safety which led to it being so common.


So what? The game doesn't change since 2003? We all are still poor noobs and any t1 battleship is still an icon of wealth and luxury?

EVE has changed. Now anyone to do a name or prosper must work harder than anyone before. Why? He comes to a mature world! EVE is not young. Equality of starting conditions is already far away! Who do you think suiciders are? They are all mindless bastards obsessed with destruction? No! Most of them are people who entered the game, but the only place this game has found for them - antisocial activity, griefing. EVE is ill. This universe is not the land of boundless opportunities. Not anymore. The truth is - she is in deep stagnation. And suicide-ganking is nothing more, nothing less, but a part of her agonal spasms.

So this old-good tradition you're talking about stands like a wall on the way to salvation. Stop the griefing, make all players equal again and you will see a fresh start! If you're in doubt consider this - most of miners are young characters. The suicide-griefing is striking this part of population.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-05-22 13:04:01 UTC
Richard Lohengrin wrote:
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

They've always been a part of EVE. They just weren't as prevalent before can-flipping went away. It's the increase in high-sec safety which led to it being so common.


So what? The game doesn't change since 2003? We all are still poor noobs and any t1 battleship is still an icon of wealth and luxury?

EVE has changed. Now anyone to do a name or prosper must work harder than anyone before. Why? He comes to a mature world! EVE is not young. Equality of starting conditions is already far away! Who do you think suiciders are? They are all mindless bastards obsessed with destruction? No! Most of them are people who entered the game, but the only place this game has found for them - antisocial activity, griefing. EVE is ill. This universe is not the land of boundless opportunities. Not anymore. The truth is - she is in deep stagnation. And suicide-ganking is nothing more, nothing less, but a part of her agonal spasms.

So this old-good tradition you're talking about stands like a wall on the way to salvation. Stop the griefing, make all players equal again and you will see a fresh start! If you're in doubt consider this - most of miners are young characters. The suicide-griefing is striking this part of population.


No. High-sec is boring enough without making it safer. I started back in the can-flipping days, if not for the frigate fights I got into in my first week while mining, I might not have kept playing EVE. I don't gank, but certainly don't have an issue with those who do.

If anything, high-sec needs more danger, not more safety.
Richard Lohengrin
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
#18 - 2014-05-22 13:13:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Lohengrin
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:


No. High-sec is boring enough without making it safer. I started back in the can-flipping days, if not for the frigate fights I got into in my first week while mining, I might not have kept playing EVE. I don't gank, but certainly don't have an issue with those who do.

If anything, high-sec needs more danger, not more safety.


Ok. Answer me then - why are you asking to do a high-sec more dangerous place, if such a places already exist in EVE? You love danger? Low-sec! Null-sec! Wormhole! Fly there, enjoy an incredible danger and hardcore! If someone has not enough courage to fight, why then anyone else must suffer because of that?
WHY any other people must be forced to play your game with your rules? Why they shall not be able to play the game of their own?
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-05-22 13:20:27 UTC
Richard Lohengrin wrote:
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:


No. High-sec is boring enough without making it safer. I started back in the can-flipping days, if not for the frigate fights I got into in my first week while mining, I might not have kept playing EVE. I don't gank, but certainly don't have an issue with those who do.

If anything, high-sec needs more danger, not more safety.


Ok. Answer me then - why are you asking to do a high-sec more dangerous place, if such a places already exist in EVE? You love danger? Low-sec! Null-sec! Wormhole! Fly there, enjoy an incredible danger and hardcore! If someone has not enough courage to fight, why then anyone must suffer because of that?
WHY any other people must be forced to play your game with your rules? Why they shall not be able to play the game of their own?


Because many new players start in high-sec, find it boring, and leave. EVE made it's reputation as a hard & demanding game, the safer they've made it, the less new players seem to stay, from what I've seen.

More safety has resulted in high-sec being quiet, no conversations, no socialization. When I started local was busy, you'd see it flash almost all the time. Now, I can be in high-sec for hours without seeing a single convo.

There already are games which cover what you want. If you don't want ship loss, then don't play a game with ship loss. If you want a single player game, there are plenty of those. EVE is unique because of the danger. As it loses that, it loses it's identity.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#20 - 2014-05-22 13:31:55 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:


Because many new players start in high-sec, find it boring, and leave. EVE made it's reputation as a hard & demanding game, the safer they've made it, the less new players seem to stay, from what I've seen.

More safety has resulted in high-sec being quiet, no conversations, no socialization. When I started local was busy, you'd see it flash almost all the time. Now, I can be in high-sec for hours without seeing a single convo.

There already are games which cover what you want. If you don't want ship loss, then don't play a game with ship loss. If you want a single player game, there are plenty of those. EVE is unique because of the danger. As it loses that, it loses it's identity.


This -- I got into my first corp (in '07) because I was in a "quiet" hisec system and a can-flipper rolled the 20k m3 jetcan I took an hour to fill up (Navitas, Meta 0 or 1 cheap-ass mining laser) ..

"Thanks for the ore"
"Wait, what? How did ... "
(explanation of mechanics)
(other players add in other bits)
Shocked

(get offer to join a gang, because stealing from someone in a gang means they go flashy to everyone)
(chill for a few days with the gang... get into corp)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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