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Autocannons have the worst projection now.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#61 - 2014-05-29 00:11:45 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:

1. Lowest Minimatar have bad fitting to refelect low costs.
2. Minmatar have terrible, TERRIBLE cap to compensate for this.
3. Lowest Damage modifier/ROF Combination on all their guns to make up for selectable damage
4. Better tracking than lasers, but the instant you hit falloff this reduces Hit quality to the point where chance to hit is greater for lasers. AC's also have the worst optimal by FAR



1. Fit the biggest guns on a maller, a rupture, and a thorax. Now tell me which one has the most fittings leftover.

2. From the example above, throw a 10mn mwd on the three ships and tell me which has the best cap life. You can even use tech one ammo.

3. If we're gonna talk damage modifiers, lets talk about ship skills. /me waves at all the minmatar with double damage bonuses and damage/rof + range.

4. Autocannons are extremely flexible weapons. They outrange blasters and out track/last lasers. Since there are three different flavors of turrets in this game, there is bound to be one that is middle ground.

That and you can't look at just the guns, you have to look at the ships too. OH BUT ZEALOT RANGE SO GUD. Yes, it also has 3 mids and uses a fuckton of cap. How many laser boats have 3 or less mids? Now look at the holy trinity of pvp [mwd, web, point, injector]. Now decide which one you aren't going to fit. Keep in mind that amarr ships are the slowest in the game (in general terms) have the lowest cpu and use the most cpu-hungry guns in the game.

There are more points, but that should be enough.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#62 - 2014-05-29 11:16:29 UTC
Templar Dane wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:

1. Lowest Minimatar have bad fitting to refelect low costs.
2. Minmatar have terrible, TERRIBLE cap to compensate for this.
3. Lowest Damage modifier/ROF Combination on all their guns to make up for selectable damage
4. Better tracking than lasers, but the instant you hit falloff this reduces Hit quality to the point where chance to hit is greater for lasers. AC's also have the worst optimal by FAR



1. Fit the biggest guns on a maller, a rupture, and a thorax. Now tell me which one has the most fittings leftover.

2. From the example above, throw a 10mn mwd on the three ships and tell me which has the best cap life. You can even use tech one ammo.

3. If we're gonna talk damage modifiers, lets talk about ship skills. /me waves at all the minmatar with double damage bonuses and damage/rof + range.

4. Autocannons are extremely flexible weapons. They outrange blasters and out track/last lasers. Since there are three different flavors of turrets in this game, there is bound to be one that is middle ground.

That and you can't look at just the guns, you have to look at the ships too. OH BUT ZEALOT RANGE SO GUD. Yes, it also has 3 mids and uses a fuckton of cap. How many laser boats have 3 or less mids? Now look at the holy trinity of pvp [mwd, web, point, injector]. Now decide which one you aren't going to fit. Keep in mind that amarr ships are the slowest in the game (in general terms) have the lowest cpu and use the most cpu-hungry guns in the game.

There are more points, but that should be enough.


1. Apples and oranges. The Throax is the Stabber of the Gallente. Compared the Thorax to the Stabber.

2. Omen: 3min, 1.53k cap. Thorax: 2.5min, 1.5k cap. Stabber 2.5min, 1.24k cap. Caracal 2min, 1.3k cap.

3. In that case why don't we discuss the whole issue regarding less bonused hi-slots on minmatar ships than Gallente/Amarr. Omen/Maller: 5 bonused guns, Thorax: 5 Bonused Guns, Caracal/Moa: 5 Bonused Launchers/Guns, Stabber/Rupture: 4 Bonused Guns. 5guns * 1.25 = 6.25 guns. 4 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 6.25 guns... but lower damage per gun BEFORE we factor in the worst optimal range in the game. You also get, IIRC, 3 T1 hulls with the double damage (Rupture, Hurricane, Tempest) which Minnie's loved the bonuses for but generally hate the slot layouts. Falloff bonuses dont translate to an equivalent Optimal range bonus.

4. Correct, flavours. However Minmatar are *not* in the middle-ground right now. They have only 1 stats that makes them 'Best in game' and that is Falloff. However if you add Optimal+ Falloff, Laser and ACs have Identical ranges. The difference is that Amarr can use increased Optimal ammo for 50% range increase, Minmatar get 50% falloff, which is nowhere near a 50% range increase in terms of damage applied. AC's are the worst of the 3 turret types over-all.

Your last statement is insanely funny, because it's applying year 200X doctrines to year 201X Eve, The holy trinity was broken with web nerfs and Scrams turning off MWD's. Most fights don't get closer than than Web range unless the ship in question has a bonus to web range or strength. 90% of loadouts are designed to hit out to 30-40km with MWD+Long Point.

MWD, Long Point, Injector is common place on most ships now. Amarr are no exception. Amarr ships aren't the bricks they used to be, Top end speed has been reduced and bottom end has been increased... now you are 1 overload of your MWD away from catching the fastest ships in the game in a weight class that's the same as the ship you fly.

The CPU argument is redundant, a lot of ships use a fitting mod in the low's for powergrid. Amarr just use CPU instead. Also a few Minmatar ships have CPU thats not much better than Amarr ships but are bonused for Shield tanking. Now THAT's a pain.

I'm not a racial purist who's whining. I'm a guy who flies all 4 races and now pretty much only flies Amarr due to how strong they are - My alt is a pure Amarr Capital Pilot (Yea, let's discuss how bad Amarr capitals are...) and I live in 0.0 where every Doctrine is either: Laser + Kite, Missiles + Kite, Brick tank + Guardians or Ishtars + Guardians

When I see fleets of Loki's and Vagabonds then maybe you'll have an argument - but the trends don't lie. Legion and Zealot are kings of ABHAC, excepting specfic Ishtar fleets to counter HellCats (Another amarr laser doctrine you notice?).

You seem to be Arguing something that's plainly not true in eve right now. But fine, Get Amarr Buffed and forget Minnie. I already own 5 Omens, 2 legions and an Archon. You're only helping me.