Player Features and Ideas Discussion

OK, so the Revelation is basically the ugly, red-headed step-child of the gun Dreadnaughts. It can match the applied DPS of the other gun dreads only in very limited, niche situations that almost never come up. It does have a slight advantage (and I mean very slight) in capacitor and a moderate advantage in eHP if you use Slave implants. It's biggest drawbacks are tracking, the fact that the other two Dreadnaughts both have 2 damage bonuses (damage+RoF) and the fact that the Moros was over-buffed. Specifically the range increases, it has all the benefits of blasters with none of the drawbacks. This should probably be addressed (or reverted) but that isn't what this thread is about and that change would not address the power differential between the Revelation and the Naglfar.

OK, so the suggested changes are as follows:

1. Change the 5% RoF per level of Amarr Dreadnaught to 10% RoF per level.
and then either
2a. Roll the cap usage per level into the guns themselves and then give it a 4% armour resistance per level bonus
or
2b. Leave the second bonus exactly where it is, but buff armour HP by 50,000 (or even by 10,000 per level)
or
2c. Add a third bonus of 4% armour resistance per level.

The first change would bring the Revelation up to 15,000 DPS with 4x Dark Blood Heat Sinks and Faction MF (for comparison a Moros with 4 Fed Navy Mag Stabs and Guristas Antimatter is 15,000 DPS), but also would add some strain to the capacitor. Also it will still have by far the worst tracking out of all the Dreadnaughts, giving it high raw damage, but poor ability to apply that damage. This fits quite nicely with the current theme of poor tracking high damage for lasers. We just have to put the high damage part back in.

That poor application somewhat justifies the second change. This change would effectively give the Revelation a 4-piece HG slave set (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta) built into the hull. This increases the base armour eHP with 1 DC 2 and 2 EANM 2s from 800,000 to 895,000 if you just straight up give it an extra 50,000 armour or (assuming my math works) from 800,000 to 910,000 if you give it a per level resistance bonus of 4%.

My preference is for 2c because the resistance bonus fits Amarr better than just giving it some more armour and I actually like the fact that the capacitor of the ship is helped by training the skill as well. I think however, of the three options presented, 2c is unlikely to be chosen by CCP, assuming my options were the only ones suggested. I would expect that option 2a would be the one chosen, which i think would be a shame.

The Revelation's flavour has always been that it is a brick with poor tracking and slightly better capacitor than the other gun dreads. Lasers in general had previously been high damage, high capacitor use, poor tracking weapons. These changes would preserve those trends while also dragging the Revelation back into relevance, but not making it as overpowered as the current Moros.

I'd like to hear other people's ideas as well. I'm not the smartest guy in the world and maybe other people will have ideas that are better than mine. Maybe other people will look at my suggestions and decide taht actually they are way over the top. Speak up folks!

From the Phoenix thread in F&I

Why are we demanding that the existing structure bashing Dreads be turned into capital battleboats when we should be demanding new capital battleboat hulls all round?

Hands off my Dread

Anyway, I don't thing any of us Rev pilots can really complain while our Caldari-flying brothers are still being made to sit in the corner with the dunces hat on.

Only change that needs to be made is balance the capital guns against each other with the assumption they will be used for structure bashing. I don't know if the Revelation is better against other capitals than most dreadnoughts, but shouldn't be as lousy as it is in structure bashes or people won't want to invest time and money into them. Even a dreadnought owned for the purpose of shooting capitals will probably shoot structures more than anything else.

Also I thought pulse lasers were supposed to have the longest range of all short range weapons? Why does Moros outrange Revelation??

It isn't broken. It will do the job, as long as the job you're talking about is hitting stationary structures for worse damage than all the other dreadnaughts.


I love the look of the Rev. It took me a while, but it grew on me, and now it is my favorite looking dread by far.

The Moros is OP, in that it is miles ahead of the Revelation and Phoenix, but then you have the Naglfar, which is pretty much just a Moros that has some choice in damage type and doesn't need cap for its guns. What's going to be easier, nerfing the Naglfar and the Moros, or applying a well-needed buff ot the Revelation?

Right now no single Dreadnaught can break the local tank on any of the carriers. If anything, *ALL* the dreadnaughts need a buff, but the Revelation is lagging behind the other two gun dreads by a fair margin. The alternative is to nerf the other capitals so that Dreadnaughts can do meaningful damage to them. THAT will go down well.


Your dreadnaught is rubbish. Literally the only thing it has going for it is guns that don't have to reload and slightly more buffer if you have a 2 billion ISK implant set. It has the worst tank, the lowest damage and the poorest tracking. Why on earth would you be telling me that it's fine?

The Phoenix being weak does not make the Revelation any less terrible. It just makes the Phoenix bad, kind of like your argument here.

So comparing the dreads to battleships, the Megathron does 40% (or so) more damage with its guns than the Abaddon, but the Abaddon has 3x the optimal and 75% of the falloff

The Moros does 37.5% (or so) more damage than the Revelation, but The Revelation only has 2x the optimal and 33% of the falloff of the Moros; in fact the Revelation has less falloff than the Abaddon!

The problem is that with stationary ships, range tends not to mean much as either you are in range or you arent, and it becomes very easy to make the moros completely useless by nerfing its range too much...

My suggestion would be to change the Moros guns to an optimal of 16km giving them an optimal of 10km after skills and AM ammo, also change its falloff to 20km meaning 25km after skills

Then change the Revelation guns to 48km optimal (30 km after skills and ammo) and 15km falloff (18.75km after skills)

This would give the revelation a much wider engagement envelope and more than justify its existence.

Also have you noticed that at level 5 it actually takes less cap to run the guns on the revelation than the moros?