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Clarification for a noob on what is meant by somethings please

Author
RebelArch Geten
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-05-20 16:41:33 UTC
Hi, I had great help on my last threat but this seemed like such a different question I needed a new topic. I've read and watched videos trying to get acclimated to the game, but there are some things I just don't see specifics on.

I get that the world is pvp and that your best bet is to have friends, but how does that translate to game experience, how often does this occur and do you always need friends online to play? From what is said, I expect there to just be dozens of ships everywhere attacking you whenever you undock and people doing the exact same thing their friends are doing bc the need to stick together. But I can't really buy that this is the case bc that sounds awful.

I'm a Sunday driver gamer. I go slow and look at everything. I click show info on everything. Is this going to be impossible or costly once I get out of hi sec? I also like to be cooperative with other players but I don't like to feel like I can only do the task every one else is up to, as I like to move slow at my pace. Can you fleet up with people and be in the same system doing different things or do you really need to be right next to each other as wing men?
SurrenderMonkey
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-05-20 17:16:14 UTC
RebelArch Geten wrote:


I get that the world is pvp and that your best bet is to have friends, but how does that translate to game experience, how often does this occur and do you always need friends online to play?


No, you don't always need friends online to play - it's just that there are far more gameplay options available to you when you're with a group. This is particularly true when you're new and don't yet have the skills (in game) or the knowledge (as a player) to do a hugely diverse set of things all by yourself.

You absolutely don't always need friends online to play, however. I am almost entirely a solo player.


Quote:
From what is said, I expect there to just be dozens of ships everywhere attacking you whenever you undock and people doing the exact same thing their friends are doing bc the need to stick together. But I can't really buy that this is the case bc that sounds awful.


No, it's not like that.


Quote:
I'm a Sunday driver gamer. I go slow and look at everything. I click show info on everything. Is this going to be impossible or costly once I get out of hi sec?


It could be. You do need to pay at least a little bit of attention to your overview, local, and d-scan outside of low-sec, but pretty much everything there is to "show info" on in low sec, also exists in high sec.

Quote:

I also like to be cooperative with other players but I don't like to feel like I can only do the task every one else is up to, as I like to move slow at my pace. Can you fleet up with people and be in the same system doing different things or do you really need to be right next to each other as wing men?


There isn't a whole lot of point* in fleeting up if you're not going to work together - it's just a chat channel at that point, so why not just use a chat channel?


*I guess you could share a fleet booster, w/e.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

voetius
Grundrisse
#3 - 2014-05-20 17:19:01 UTC

You can play exactly how you like, it's a sandbox.

However, the reason that people recommend playing with others is that being with a group of friendly and knowledgeable players is going to get you over hurdles that much quicker.

E.g. if you are a new player you could look at many different corporations that are dedicated to helping new players such as Eve University. I picked E-Uni as opposed to any of the others as they have the largest wiki collection of resources but you can click the link to the Evelopedia at the top of tis page and explore other options.

You need to be a bit more careful when you are outside highsec as most people will see you as fairgame, ofc that also applies to them as well :)

Accepting fleet invites from people you don't know, especially outside high sec is going to end badly (for you).

TLDR: you can play how you want, it's your money, but if you want to go full solo then you have to accept that it's going to be a bit harder.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-05-20 17:39:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
New Eden is much less dangerous than rumor has it. For the most part, you can fly about high sec with impunity, excepting if you are war dec'd or flying something incredibly expensive. While you CAN be attacked anywhere, the punishment for the attacker limits the target pool. Many players spend their entire lives in high sec and never see an attack by another player.

Low sec and null sec (including WH) have very thin populations, so other than certain travel routes or staging systems, you can often fly a dozen jumps without even seeing another player. Low sec has gate/station guns making PvP there difficult in small ships. Quite often you will be sitting on a gate in low sec with half a dozen guys that WANT to shoot you, but will die to gate guns if they do.

While you certainly don't need friends online just to log in to Eve, this is an MMO and is designed entirely around the fleet concept. Pretty much anything you can do in Eve, you can do better with a friend or two along. Fleeting also allows you to fit a ship for specific roles instead of generalized for all roles, and allows you to explore distinct fleet roles rather than be a jack of all trades at them.

As for 'moving at your own pace'...that can be rewarded in Eve, actually. The most common mistake of new players is to try to fly ships they can barely undock simply because it is bigger. One type of pacing would be- fly what you are good at, not what you can barely undock. I would much rather have a new player in a T1 frig with good skills than that same guy trying to keep up in a battle cruiser with half-a$$ed skills. I would rather have a guy that knows his role in the fleet, not just another F1 monkey.

One doesn't have to be 'on grid' with fleet mates, however certain mechanics like boosting ships do need to be in the same system as you. Most activated modules (like repair, ReSeBo, etc) have ranges like weapons, and you will need to be on grid and in range for them to function.
But proximity to your fleet depends on what you're doing. As a fleet scout in a Ceptor ahead of the main body, you will almost never see your fleet.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-05-20 17:51:31 UTC
Nah, don't worry!

You can play solo as much as you want. Several people (including me) also love to pvp solo, though it isn't easy. I also enjoy small gangs and fleets, but I do that because it's fun not because it's impossible to survive alone in lowsec.

Only important thing is to learn the game, and you can certainly do that at your own pace. This is just one of the excellent guides you can find to be alright even out of highsec (or in highsec during a war).

Fly safe (and fun)!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

RebelArch Geten
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-05-20 18:11:06 UTC
Thanks for all the info. It's nice to hear that it's not like a COD map.
Vincent R'lyeh
Screaming Hayabusa
#7 - 2014-05-20 19:14:07 UTC
I think the 4th column in this helpful infographic from Rixx Javix's blog emphasises an important point in this thread:

I have deliberately developed an air of cynicism that I originally intended to make me appear somewhat louche and caddish but actually comes across as irritable hostility combined with the unspoken threat of sudden violence.....

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2014-05-20 19:47:57 UTC
The only content in EVE is what you create, or you find.

It is much easier to create content, and to find it, when more people are involved.

I have played solo as well as in a low-activity alliance, and the low-activity alliance was hugely fun when they did something.

You really want to join a group of people that either create trouble, or look for it!
RebelArch Geten
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-05-20 20:27:09 UTC
I plan to take on cooperative tasks a lot. I'd like to log in, do so etching with other players, then be able to reasonably safely do my thing. I wouldn't want some one to have to follow me to do my thing, like check out a system I've never been to, or jump somewhere to buy or sell something, just so I'm not swarmed every time I come out of warp like a lot of articles make the game sound.

I'm all for a level of risk, make a stupid jump, go to system owned by a corp I'm not in, once in a while have pirates hunting, but if every time and place you undock there's ship running and gunning turning the systems into killing fields, that'd be no different than a COD map to me.

Actually it'd be worse since there's nothing else to do in COD so I'm doing the same thing. But if I'm in a skill monkey game with awesome things to do but can't reasonably approach those tasks bc run and gunners, that would be torture.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-05-20 21:25:28 UTC
Hi OP, I'm pretty slow figuring out complex displays and rapid marching orders (flying orders?) from FCs. If you join a decent corp, others will be patient with you and teach you the tricks they know.

That being said, let's not sugarcoat what EVE will feel like. You can get killed at any time, likely because you're not in the best position to resist an attack somebody else has mounted. Probably the person that's attacking you knows that.. since you are still new. Your brain will need to process multiple things quickly, and you'll want to learn how not to panic even if half your ship looks like it went up in flames.

These skills.. anticipation, observation, planning, presence, etc. they will come in time.

You really just need to remember to be patient and calm. You're going to fall multiple times, and sometimes you'll break something valuable or you'll make a stupid mistake. Just pick yourself back up and keep playing. Having friends helps because sometimes you can fall back on them.. even if it is just to chat with someone about your frustrations.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Solai
Doughfleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#11 - 2014-05-20 23:25:42 UTC
People make a big deal of the risks, the paranoia, and the loss because they're always visceral... But not because they're constant. In fact, the things people caution against are rather spaced out in how often you can expect to come in contact. Eventually you will run into the risks and hazards, surely. And they're right to tell you to be prepared. But for all the noise we make, it's not frequent enough to require stress and paranoia.

Regarding the way teamwork happens in this game - Consider the null-sec sovereign alliance. This is the prototypical example of friends and allies.

We organize a leadership structure, hierarchies and trees of responsibility, rules and means of governance, the things that allow people to work together and solve disputes. We set up systems outside of the game, like instant messengers and forums to help coordinate across time zones and to those who are offline. We band together to clear out and claim our own little kingdom of space, picking and following leaders in our fights. We meet to decide our priorities, we pool our resources and spread out the work to erect infrastructure, we devise how we're going to pay for and maintain our null-sec infrastructure. We try to hold guard and keep everyone but our friends outside of our space. When non-allies roam through, we send up the alarm, we log in, pack together into a fleet, and try to force them out. When we lose fights, we dip into our collective funds to replace the losses. We find ourselves needing money, so we find ways to gain more money via cooperation, like mining fleets. We establish minimal rules and begin populating a market of our own, a little Jita for ourselves, way out in the sticks.

I could go on. These are the things we do as friends and allies in Eve, all of it built on trust. And these things come together to form the essence of Eve. Without friends and allies, none of that stuff happen. Without friends and allies, there is no Eve.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-05-21 01:03:59 UTC
RebelArch Geten wrote:
I plan to take on cooperative tasks a lot. I'd like to log in, do so etching with other players, then be able to reasonably safely do my thing. I wouldn't want some one to have to follow me to do my thing, like check out a system I've never been to, or jump somewhere to buy or sell something, just so I'm not swarmed every time I come out of warp like a lot of articles make the game sound.

I'm all for a level of risk, make a stupid jump, go to system owned by a corp I'm not in, once in a while have pirates hunting, but if every time and place you undock there's ship running and gunning turning the systems into killing fields, that'd be no different than a COD map to me.

Actually it'd be worse since there's nothing else to do in COD so I'm doing the same thing. But if I'm in a skill monkey game with awesome things to do but can't reasonably approach those tasks bc run and gunners, that would be torture.


I'd suggest you get into exploration for your PvE activities. You can take on as much or as little risk as you see fit any given day.

For PvP side, go tackler. It's something you can get into within days of play and still holds huge value a decade into the game. It is the most "proactive" PvP role in a gang - meaning you have to be quick to do it well.

Both types of activities are usually done at the Frigate or Cruiser level. Both offer a wide variety of ships and configurations to use so you can mess around with what you fly as you learn more - and both start so easily that you can do them within days of starting the game yet still advance using those skills "forever".

If you get good at tackling then you know how to slip by them and you'll definitely lose any concerns about flying around solo as well as being desired along on most gang runs.
Ethikos
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-05-21 01:44:15 UTC
You dont need people on all the time, no. Based on your statements, I would encourage you to look at Brave Newbies or EvE University. They have plenty of ops (schedule events) that you can pick from based on your play time. When you just want to go explore, you can do that as well. If you are in a fleet however for a stated objective, yes you need to be focused on that. The above groups are geared to helping out newer players so you will have plenty of fleet mates to help you along.
RebelArch Geten
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-05-21 02:11:15 UTC
Thanks every one. Really appreciate the answers. I have some more questions I couldn't find a clear answer on through google and don't want to make a new thread so hope some of you are checking back.

I want to sub. I know buying the game the first time usually gets you some goodies in game. There is an awesome explorers pack on amazon that comes with ships, skills books, and want I really want a cerebral doo hickey! But it says this is not a valid way to upgrade a buddy trial. When I go on eve to buy the game, it doesn't say anything about goodies? Do you really not get anything for buying through eve itself? That sounds funny to me. Is there a way to upgrade my buddy trial so they get something and use one of the start up options that comes with stuff for the new player?

Second question, I know there isn't such a thing as better ships in this game, so my question is going to be about viability. Are the ships you get in the career path tuts viable for going off on your own or should I be looking to buy a new frigate? I looked at some ship stats, but don't know how to make much info out of the stats yet. Is there a site that shows ship strengths by chart and area of interest?
Solai
Doughfleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#15 - 2014-05-21 03:48:07 UTC
Regarding your second query:
In many cases, you can shoehorn a wide variety of ships into a particular role. Will it be the most efficient/optimal way of going about it? No! But it's often good enough, at least when you're new. In Eve, you don't want to let the perfect get in the way of the good. for that reason, yes, the ships you gain in your initial tutorials are just fine to stick with. If you're hitting snags, it will probably be blatantly obvious.

Regarding an overview of ships, that's what the ISIS is for. It can give you a decent overview of what kinds of themes each faction's ships have. To access it, I think it's the icon that looks like an "A" inside a squareish box, on your left edge of the screen.

Beyond that, your other guiding point is on weapon size classes. To oversimplify, small class turrets are good at tracking and shooting smaller, faster ships - drones and frigates - but can't do much damage. Medium turrets do more damage, and are capable of shooting small targets, or instead focusing on range or damage power. They're pretty versatile. Large turrets have a very hard time tracking targets smaller than a cruiser, particularly if they're geared towards range.

In general, short range turrets track moving targets better, and do more damage, than long range turrets.

Cruisers all carry medium turret mountings. Battlecruisers have two medium-turret variants, and one large-turret variant. Battleships use large turrets.

There's so many more variables involved, but these are some good ground-floor generalities.

Here's a good video to help get into some nuts and bolts of Eve's combat system, and how to understand what to expect out of different hulls and fits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT8VqVcLDqc
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-05-21 05:33:41 UTC
Also,

You don't always need friends to get stuff done. It just depends what you want to get done and sometimes friends do make it easier.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-05-21 05:52:32 UTC
RebelArch Geten wrote:
I want to sub. I know buying the game the first time usually gets you some goodies in game. There is an awesome explorers pack on amazon that comes with ships, skills books, and want I really want a cerebral doo hickey! But it says this is not a valid way to upgrade a buddy trial. When I go on eve to buy the game, it doesn't say anything about goodies? Do you really not get anything for buying through eve itself? That sounds funny to me. Is there a way to upgrade my buddy trial so they get something and use one of the start up options that comes with stuff for the new player?

The Amazon explorer pack cannot be used to upgrade a trial. It gives you a key which will let you activate a new account with all the goodies in the redeeming system.

There are bundles on Amazon that come with a few ships and such that can be used to upgrade your trial.. but some of these packs will not let your buddy redeem a plex if your account was created through the buddy invite. Always read the fine print before buying.

This explorer pack won't be found on eveonline.com.

There is a subscription pack on eveonline.com that will give you a ship (google for "Winter Special") but it gives you just a frigate and a cheaper sub price per month (which is worth it) but no accelerator. The accelerator is about 1-2 weeks extra of training so think of it as worth about 300 mil ISK or at most half a PLEX.

Personally I would use the deal on eveonline.com. The cheaper subscription is worth it, and the in-game items can be acquired later as you play the game anyway.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

RebelArch Geten
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-05-21 07:23:08 UTC
Solai wrote:
People make a big deal of the risks, the paranoia, and the loss because they're always visceral... But not because they're constant. In fact, the things people caution against are rather spaced out in how often you can expect to come in contact. Eventually you will run into the risks and hazards, surely. And they're right to tell you to be prepared. But for all the noise we make, it's not frequent enough to require stress and paranoia.

Regarding the way teamwork happens in this game - Consider the null-sec sovereign alliance. This is the prototypical example of friends and allies.

We organize a leadership structure, hierarchies and trees of responsibility, rules and means of governance, the things that allow people to work together and solve disputes. We set up systems outside of the game, like instant messengers and forums to help coordinate across time zones and to those who are offline. We band together to clear out and claim our own little kingdom of space, picking and following leaders in our fights. We meet to decide our priorities, we pool our resources and spread out the work to erect infrastructure, we devise how we're going to pay for and maintain our null-sec infrastructure. We try to hold guard and keep everyone but our friends outside of our space. When non-allies roam through, we send up the alarm, we log in, pack together into a fleet, and try to force them out. When we lose fights, we dip into our collective funds to replace the losses. We find ourselves needing money, so we find ways to gain more money via cooperation, like mining fleets. We establish minimal rules and begin populating a market of our own, a little Jita for ourselves, way out in the sticks.

I could go on. These are the things we do as friends and allies in Eve, all of it built on trust. And these things come together to form the essence of Eve. Without friends and allies, none of that stuff happen. Without friends and allies, there is no Eve.


Solai, you'll be proud. I hung out in null sec for 4 hours on day 3. Got blown up in an instant of a gang jumping into my spot. Thought I was pretty quick when I got away in my pod only to fly around aimlessly for half hour unable to chart a course home and had to self destruct.

It was fun out there and great to see, lost a free tut ship oh well. Was disappointed I couldn't loot any thing. Didn't have the proper tools.

Do you need high level mods to loot in null? I also got about 50 hits with scanning probes, I'm set up for hacking and relic hunting, any way to tell what a site is before I spend the time scanning it down?
Solai
Doughfleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#19 - 2014-05-21 10:41:39 UTC
I don't have much exploration experience, so I'll leave that to others to respond to. But to my knowledge, you don't need bigger badder mods to do stuff in Null, just the basic spread of modules that are geared towards exploration, a ship hull that's bonused for the task, and some SP to support your hacking and scanning.
A ship and fit like this might be a decent goal -
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/66527-Odyssey-Helios-Exploration-null-low-sec.html
It will likely take a few days to train. Tech1 variants are also good, until then.

Hopefully that was a fun trip out, but to get the most out of null, you'd need a corporation that has you back.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-05-21 20:01:50 UTC
RebelArch Geten wrote:
Do you need high level mods to loot in null? I also got about 50 hits with scanning probes, I'm set up for hacking and relic hunting, any way to tell what a site is before I spend the time scanning it down?

No, you don't need expensive modules, keep it cheap. If you have difficulty scanning or opening anything, keep training the scanning/hacking/archaeology skills. Try to get into a t2 cover ops frigate with covert cloak, but don't worry too much about the quality of your modules. Once you have that, Sister's Core Probes might be worth it, but you want to keep your fit cheap. I usually don't fly a ship unless I can afford five more of it.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

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