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Why my friends didn't started to play EVE
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w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#81 - 2014-06-06 11:31:33 UTC
Anathema Device wrote:
w3ak3stl1nk wrote:
Player corporations are not the answer they are part of the problem.

The NPC Corporations provide little social benefit for a new player that is not addressed by joining a noob Corporation like EVE University. Scrap all NPC Corps and start each character in a training organizations. Doesn't have to be EVE University could be any Corp willing to take unskilled players.This integrates new players into a real social structure.

If a player drops Corp they don't get dumped into an NPC Corp but are left without a Corp and get slugged with higher and escalating taxes and charges. The more senior (older) the player the higher the taxes and charges. Cap the taxes at 80% of income. If CCP can't contemplate EVE without NPC Corps then allow NPC Corps to be WarDec'ed.

Lol if the person is a trade alt or miner that tax means nothing... And the majority of high sec alts is?.. Tax only affects mission runner which is a smaller group. Even more afk gameplay is what you want.... Ok yeah sucker people into the social dramas of player clicks and elitism... Yeah that will fix everything... Then make them more antisocial by having no corp... The "real" social structure is grief and politics... Not everyone wants that

Is that my two cents or yours?
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#82 - 2014-06-06 20:58:57 UTC
There's been much said about the "new player experience"

Mine was being recruited by a friend, creating and account, and immediately be shipped off to Stain as an RC newbro. I didn't spend a lot of time there, only went on one real op, and generally spent most of my time learning ratting and scanning and pinging intel channels. In fact my first PVP experience was in a gate checking frig being blown up so that the fleet behind me knew what was on the next gate.

This was a great introduction in to EVE because it paired me, a player, with a group of players that had a use for me. I left shortly afterward due to personal issues, but when I came back to EVE I knew exactly what to expect.

I think if there was some ingame mechanism for players to do that from the point of creation it would alleviate a lot of the NPE issues the game has. What if, for example, corps could publish recruiting ads directly to character creation, and elect to accept new players automatically, perhaps even paying for a premium station service that would allow that player's first clone to be automatically installed at a specific office and provide it with a specific package of starting gear provided by the corp?

This would mean that a new player could join an amenable player corp right away, thus corps like EVE university, or small startups or "training corps" would have more granular and directed control over the new player experience. Players could still elect to start out in an NPC corp, but this would allow the player base to much more easily shoulder the load of the NPE, and immediately recruit and train new guys with matching interests.

If I start EVE, knowing nothing, and I know I want to do, say, industry, maybe at the point of creation I have the opportunity to either start off on my own, or start off in a player corp who has alotted a dedicated recruiting program specifically to industry, or piracy, or exploration, or whatever.
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#83 - 2014-06-07 01:24:48 UTC
PopeUrban wrote:
There's been much said about the "new player experience"

Mine was being recruited by a friend, creating and account, and immediately be shipped off to Stain as an RC newbro. I didn't spend a lot of time there, only went on one real op, and generally spent most of my time learning ratting and scanning and pinging intel channels. In fact my first PVP experience was in a gate checking frig being blown up so that the fleet behind me knew what was on the next gate.

This was a great introduction in to EVE because it paired me, a player, with a group of players that had a use for me. I left shortly afterward due to personal issues, but when I came back to EVE I knew exactly what to expect.

I think if there was some ingame mechanism for players to do that from the point of creation it would alleviate a lot of the NPE issues the game has. What if, for example, corps could publish recruiting ads directly to character creation, and elect to accept new players automatically, perhaps even paying for a premium station service that would allow that player's first clone to be automatically installed at a specific office and provide it with a specific package of starting gear provided by the corp?

This would mean that a new player could join an amenable player corp right away, thus corps like EVE university, or small startups or "training corps" would have more granular and directed control over the new player experience. Players could still elect to start out in an NPC corp, but this would allow the player base to much more easily shoulder the load of the NPE, and immediately recruit and train new guys with matching interests.

If I start EVE, knowing nothing, and I know I want to do, say, industry, maybe at the point of creation I have the opportunity to either start off on my own, or start off in a player corp who has alotted a dedicated recruiting program specifically to industry, or piracy, or exploration, or whatever.

I like the idea of options on starting out. Making it work might be a whole different issue though

Is that my two cents or yours?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#84 - 2014-06-07 02:03:09 UTC
So when I start I get hit by 10000 options for corps none of which I know from a bar of soap....
That's going to make for a great NPE.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#85 - 2014-06-07 02:24:21 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Third approach worked , as i broke my leg , and i was sitting home for very long time.
So i had plenty of time.
There you go. Break your friends' legs and they'll play Eve. What's the problem?
Ved Riru
#86 - 2014-06-08 10:12:52 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
The real "Problem" is, Eve is an oldschool Game for oldschool coregamer, new MMOs on the other Hand are just so Basic and fastpaced thats easy to get in but dull after some weeks, thats also the reason this codefu.. from CCP still exists since 11 years because its just different...

And there is no alternative, thats the sad but simple truth.

There are actually many alternatives. The game can become less punishing for new players and for old ones if they want it. CCP could sell attribute remaps in packs for real-life money, CCP could sell pretrained characters as a premium pack for USD60 or so to allow new players to experience any playstyle they want right from the start. And if a new player doesn’t like being an Orca pilot, he or she can become something else the next month by buying another premium pack! Win-win for new players and CCP investors. And a victory for old players, too. Aren’t you tired of waiting for a long time to get a new alt to be able to do something meaningful?

Barbara Nichole wrote:
Frankly, I don't care why your friends didn't play EvE. People find reasons not to play a game all day long and most of those will not change.. would you really want those people in EvE anyway? Just look at the gymnastics WoW has undergone to try to attract different player demographics - has WoW really become a better game because of it? I'm very much more interested in finding out why the people who do play EvE play.

Hell yeah! A much more better game. Otherwise so many people would not be paying for it and playing it for years. And if you are not sure about the benefits that more subscribers bring to a game developer, try to compare the Battle.Net application and the Eve Online launcher that gets quite many complaints even about simple stuff like patching the game. More subscribers, more money, more developers spending their time giving you a better game!

Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
Something that may help with early growing pains in this game would be an in-game recommended skill plan. These days races have two weapon types so say you start Gallente the game will present you with either a drone focused skill plan that roles from Tristan to Algos to Vexor while training most of the core skills to 4 then moves on to the Myrmidon and Dominix.

Good plan! Although the certification of skills looks pretty wrong to me as a new player. I am sure the developers did something wrong when picking the skills for particular certificates. But that’s only me. A new player.

Derath Ellecon wrote:
Bottom line is that it is total BS that you have to wait to do anything in EVE. You have to wait if you have the attitude of only being able to do something after you can fly ship X. But there is plenty to do out of the gate if you simply enjoy the level you are at vs the level you will be in the future.

I can partially agree with this. But these days I am accustomed to getting better at my game through getting new skills, new character levels as the most obvious choice.
Then getting wardecced cannot be successful for everyone. A new player with scare ISK resources and a handful of ships at their disposal will surely not like to lose a lot of what they have gained in the first few weeks of playing. Frustration is good for the game? Probably but don’t we get enough frustration in real life?

King Fu Hostile wrote:
Then they just have to find some other game, too bad. EVE doesn't offer "instant fun." EVE offers a long-term challenge. People play games for different reasons, and there are no games that successfully combine 11 years and instant, casual gameplay.

Eve Online could be the first game. Some options to allow new players (6-12 months old) to have an easier time than they have now and, for instance, give +1 attribute point for every 5 million skill points to old-time players and everyone will be happy!
TO BE CONTINUED because "You can only quote 5 times in a single post"

There are multiple truths in every fact. I protect my truths with a passion.
Ved Riru
#87 - 2014-06-08 10:13:41 UTC
CONTINUED 1
Anthar Thebess wrote:
So far i see old people that have multimillion sp characters saying NO about giving <1mln sp to new players Roll

People are the same everywhere. They want other people suffer. Just like in the army you start out as a rookie and you must reach the rank of veteran player because veterans didn’t suffer themselves as new players for nothing. And then human psyche tends to suppress bad memories, so after a long time you remember only good things. So everything must have been good back in days of old!

Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:
The long skill times also mitigate the effect of wallet warriors on the game. In the previously mentioned game, you are eligible to fly the "end game" capital ship in about a month if you are to dump about $100 to purchase game currency. Whether you grind for ISK or whip out the credit card to purchase PLEX you get to the good stuff at about the same rate.

Two things:
1. CCP can learn from that other game and do it better this time.
2. Spending more on the game is often good for game developers. And even considering there is a character bazaar coughing up for a trained capital ship character takes much more than $100 in PLEX purchases. I consider trained those characters that have at least 20 million plus SP. They tend to cost from 5 to 8 billion ISK and that amount of ISK is more than USD100 by a lot.

Derath Ellecon wrote:
If any EVE player has the mindset that they cannot do anything until they have sit ship spinning for XX time (days,weeks,month) then they are missing the fundamental point of EVE.

If a new player has this mindset, giving them free SP isn't going to change it. At best it kicks the can down the road a ways. In many cases it will make things worse.

People are different, right? They can play the same game in different ways. Unless the proposed changes don’t harm your playstyle, you don’t have to oppose them. Although humans always fear changes. In any age common people just like their tomorrow to be only slightly better than today with as few changes as possible.

Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
So far i see old people that have multimillion sp characters saying NO about giving <1mln sp to new players Roll

Next step would be 2 Million SP, then 3, then 4 and then you can buy an expension and get LVL 90 instand...

The next step will be asking the developers why they designed the skill point system this way. Did they intend to allow players to learn all the skills sometime in the future? Did they intend to allow it for several characters a player may have? Did they ever want to do the skill point system differently? What about giving characters +1 attribute after a certain stage?
And then how about changing the game more because the game is old? Surely changes have happened since the game was launched 11 years ago? And changes do happen all the time. The proposed pretrained, free-to-distribute-skill-points characters are just one of those changes.

There is another sale going on in account management. Yet another Power of 2 for new characters only. I am training several characters now, each with its own account, and do I need a discount to get yet another account? CCP loses money by allowing me to pay USD45 for half a year of gameplay on a new account instead of giving me the ability to purchase a premium starter pack for USD60 with a pretrained character or at least the ability to inject 20 million of skill points (yes, I am greedy and spoilt) or at least give me a cerebral accelerator with +10 stats that will work for a year.
TO BE CONTINUED

There are multiple truths in every fact. I protect my truths with a passion.
Ved Riru
#88 - 2014-06-08 10:14:28 UTC
CONTINUED 2
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I come from the days before Attribute Remaps.

I spent the first couple hours learning to fly my ship, shooting NPC's in asteroid belts, and taking on L1 combat missions. It was difficult, and I lost several ships. This was before a skill que existed, so I would train short skills while I was online, and train learning skills while I was offline, sometimes alarm clocking to change skills. I know this sounds like gramps telling tails of walking to school in 6-feet of snow, uphill both ways, but EvE was much, much less noob friendly back then.

Skill Queue
Annual+ Attribute Remaps
No more learning skills
Better handouts from tutorial agents
Better skill progression design
More viable ships (instead of 1-2 viable frigates, 1-2 viable cruisers, etc, per racial class).

CCP is constantly improving the user experience, and we all appreciate that.

Thanks for that. I suspected Eve Online was different back when it started. Didn’t suspect it was as much different. It means the game developers understand the need for charge. Maybe that’s why at Eve Fanfest 2014 they revealed the fact that 50% of new players just quit, 40% level their Raven and mission and 10% move on to more interesting things in Eve Online. Maybe they want ideas about what their old-time customers and new customers want?

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

At the end of the day, do you really think that your friends would have stayed if they had the skills you suggested? If they can't wait a few days to train up their basic skills, I can imagine them now QQ'ing about Cruiser V or BC V or BS V. You don't need to be "maxed skilled" in (most) ships to utilize it effectively, and that should be something that not only should be explained to them, but something they experience as a new member to the community.

You surely don’t need to be but people are different and some may be attracted by the proposition of getting into the game with a good head start. Although I wouldn’t like CCP to offer specific skills, an amount of skill points to distribute sounds better.

Digger Pollard wrote:
SP is a crucial issue of eve. It takes years to achieve basic proficiency in weapon systems. 2 years and my combat alt still cannot get into a marauder - because he lacks SP! Bigger SP blob always wins in pvp, unless he commits a real blunder. So everyone who says SP isn't the issue is entitled to a full shovel of manure in the face from me. Eat some ****, sir.

Very eloquently put, good sir. Well done. I agree that the amount of skill points matters to a large degree.
TO BE CONTINUED

There are multiple truths in every fact. I protect my truths with a passion.
Ved Riru
#89 - 2014-06-08 10:15:20 UTC
CONTINUED 3 (The last one!)
Anathema Device wrote:
There still hasn't been a good argument for giving more skill points at character creation.

Also no matter how young or old a character is in EVE there will always be somebody in here that can destroy their ship. Boosting players so that they get into a shiny ship earlier doesn't solve the problem of combat. It doesn't matter what skill points are given to an entry level player they remain at a disadvantage. If you boost all the new players they are still behind all the older players. It doesn't address the problem. Skill points are not going to solve the problem of lack of good tutors. Better to scrap all NPC corporations, create player corporations at initial login so the new players can create their content.

Giving skill points will give new players more options how to go about creating that content. And they will definitely feel better about the in-game progress in comparison with looking at skill queue and seeing it takes a week to train Drones V or 33 days to train Caldari Freighter V with top implants and skills.
There is a gap between what new players can use after playing for several weeks and what new players expect from a game with all the other MMOs and other kinds of games available on the market.

AFAIK many long-time Eve Online players would love new players to fall in love with the game at first sight but that kind of love is a rare breed indeed.

w3ak3stl1nk wrote:
Give a newbie 20 M SP and they still wouldn't know what to do. Eve basics as described in tutorials are still very bad. They are slightly better than before, but still bad. Newbies don't even understand what low sec is even after they get blown up for going there...

20M SP would give a sense of achievement and will drive new players to get better because they have achieved so much and surely the game from now on will be only bright and joyful.

Gregor Parud wrote:
Just because the majority of ppl don't like this game doesn't mean it's bad, all it means that it's not aimed at most people. If folks don't enjoy EVE, that's fine... nothing wrong with. Trying to change it into WOW in space IS wrong.

Indeed. That's exactly why CCP is trying to improve new player experience. Oh wait… They are doing it to attract more players! Not everyone and their grandmother but still more than the current number.

There are multiple truths in every fact. I protect my truths with a passion.
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2014-06-08 10:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Ved Riru wrote:

Hell yeah! A much more better game. Otherwise so many people would not be paying for it and playing it for years. And if you are not sure about the benefits that more subscribers bring to a game developer, try to compare the Battle.Net application and the Eve Online launcher that gets quite many complaints even about simple stuff like patching the game. More subscribers, more money, more developers spending their time giving you a better game!

I don't want to sound like a snob, but there is saying out there: "Millions of flies can not be wrong". I hope it didn't lost its point during translation. Some thing most people like is usually something stupid, primitive, boring, inelaborate, mediocre one - because it made so, or just always been so, and thats why it is so popular, because it's accessible to everyone. So if you want to screw some good thing up, remake it so it will be likeable by most people out there. You can take any "AAA title", or any popular enough console game, or some popular singer and see what I mean by yourself. I don't want something like that to happen with Eve too. We have enough such mmos out there, and if we need to somehow enhance [new] user's expericence for Eve, we need to find some special way, because this game is specail by itself.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link
Ved Riru
#91 - 2014-06-08 10:32:44 UTC
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
Ved Riru wrote:

Hell yeah! A much more better game. Otherwise so many people would not be paying for it and playing it for years. And if you are not sure about the benefits that more subscribers bring to a game developer, try to compare the Battle.Net application and the Eve Online launcher that gets quite many complaints even about simple stuff like patching the game. More subscribers, more money, more developers spending their time giving you a better game!

I don't want to sound like a snob, but there is saying out there: "Millions of flies can not be wrong". I hope it didn't lost its point during translation. Some thing most people like is usually something stupid, primitive, boring, inelaborate, mediocre one - because it made so, or just always been so, and thats why it is so popular, because it's accessible to everyone. So if you want to screw some good thing up, remake it so it will be likeable by most people out there. You can take any "AAA title", or any popular enough console game, or some popular singer and see what I mean by yourself. I don't want something like that to happen with Eve too. We have enough such mmos out there, and if we need to somehow enhance [new] user's expericence for Eve, we need to find some special way, because this game is specail by itself.

I heard it as "Millions of lemmings cannot be wrong" back in the old days when scientists thought lemmings would gather up in big numbers and migrate to better pastures, every lemming following the other ones blindly even off the edge of a cliff Big smile
And yes, Eve Online is quite special and I wouldn't like to see it ruined by too many changes implemented too fast.

There are multiple truths in every fact. I protect my truths with a passion.
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#92 - 2014-06-08 11:50:08 UTC
The changes are a knee jerk reaction to the fact they wasted so much on incomplete projects. Now they are way behind on the power curve. They going to shoot down the 40% that do stay with the industrial changes but maybe there is a long term goal for that. I still think the community could do a better job in teaching basics to new players. Make that 40% into 60% and that10% into 15% and those numbers would be very good.

Is that my two cents or yours?
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#93 - 2014-06-08 12:16:39 UTC
Maybe if High Sector Gankers would stop attacking the Rookies they might stay around longer.
Aareya
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#94 - 2014-06-08 13:02:46 UTC
Quote:
Maybe that’s why at Eve Fanfest 2014 they revealed the fact that 50% of new players just quit, 40% level their Raven and mission and 10% move on to more interesting things in Eve Online.


When new players come to EVE, they often find it a different experience from other games they play. Assuming the new player has made it through the tutorials, they are often left with "what do I do next?". Feedback from the community urges them to join a player corporation, to experience EVE with other players. But how do they do that? The Recruitment Tool needs work. If they don't find a corporation, how much longer do they wander around solo? I saw a new player streaming his experience, after flying around, he eventually told his listeners he was bored and logging out.

Maybe they do find a corporation. What's the chance that the corporation doesn't suck? Does the corporation CEO tell his members to dock up and stop playing EVE when a war dec occurs? Are the corporation members helpful? Do they include the new player in exciting game play? I've seen new players quit because corp after corp is simply terrible.

Giving new players more starter SP will not solve these problems. Those that will quit will still quit, albeit with more SP.

The biggest challenge for retaining new players is connecting them to the options they have available. Entering a challenging sandbox oriented game solo or with a poorly operating group (i.e. corporation) will not help the new player connect with the variety of content in EVE. While some players are self-motivated to find and/or create content themselves, many players are not and contribute to the 90% metric CCP provided at Fanfest.

Twitter:   @AareyaEVE
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#95 - 2014-06-08 13:49:34 UTC
Self motivation is hard to come by when you have no idea what to do next. The assumption is that player corps will help them along but we know that not to be true in most cases. The low/null region is so different to high that it is relearning what is basic "skills." SP will not save you if you have no idea what is out there. I think 40% is very good number, but if that number goes down for the patch or because of the anti high sec movement... Then it might be a bad sign. The 40% may also be low sec pvpers that can't afford the losses to their pvp mains that they have in low sec. Eve is a balanced cycle of life type of environment of give and take so making too many changes can hurt high sec and in turn hurt low sec. Null makes lots of isk, but for small corps that is not really an option. High sec is the first new player experience a player will have and to see big alliances influence Eve to have more social "bullying" might not be a good image to have... Especially when trying to attract new or old players.

Is that my two cents or yours?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#96 - 2014-06-08 17:21:31 UTC
Digger Pollard wrote:


Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
2.) It doesn't take "years" to achieve basic proficiency in a weapon system. Maybe CCP's arbitrary ISIS may claim otherwise, but so what. Proficiency does NOT mean max skilled! Proficiency means you are functional with the weapon system, you know its strengths and weaknesses, and you know how to maximize its effectiveness. You can be proficient with Meta 4 weapons, although I'll admit T2 weapons offer enough advantages to make them ideal.


Simple evemon check shows it takes 4 months for a weapon system and another 5 for a ship, add 3 months for basic fitting skills and 2 months for defensive system your ship uses, then there's also drone skills if you want to be comparable to other people flying your ship, which are extra 2-4 months depending on drone size, maybe propulsion and hull skills for another month, capacitor skills for one more month if your ship is cap-tight... we're looking at 1.5 years of focused training during which the character is useless, or 2-3 years if you want to make it useful in the meantime.



This is such garbage. You've chosen a very skill intensive ship, and act like thats the only thing in EvE you can do and so you are useless until you can utilize it. You then assume you cannot utilize it until you are near-maxed at piloting it. If that is the only way you play, then EvE is not the game for you. Max skills are NOT very important. Furthermore, the skill system makes it very quick to get mediocre skills.


Digger Pollard wrote:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

3.) So what if you can't get into a marauder. There are three classes of subcap ships that are very skill intensive: Blackops, Command Ships, and Marauders. Training these ships takes a large amount of time, but that doesn't mean other ships aren't available and capable of performing on par with these ships. What task do you NEED to be in a level 5 marauder?

Really now, so what if I can't fit into a ship I wanted despite 2 years of training for it... /sarcasm


Really now, you are upset that there exists SP Intensive ships that wont be accessible to a new player? If your sole goal in EvE was to fly marauders destroying level 4 mission rats, I can understand how the year long training queue to use it would be daunting. However, there are many things you can do in EvE along the way, and pigeonholing your entire experience based on the ability to fly one skill intensive ship is ridiculous.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#97 - 2014-06-08 17:24:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Digger Pollard wrote:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

4.) Bigger SP does NOT always win in PvP. That is a complete fallacy. As a newb I was killing t2 fit ships flown by much higher skillpiont characters in my cheap meta fit t1 frigates. Generally speaking, numbers and/or tactics win every fight, and SP plays a very minor role.

Read more carefully please - I said "bigger SP blob". Numbers contribute to SP blob with their SP - and with that in mind, bigger SP blob does win every time, unless a massive blunder were to happen.


I read what you said, and it is still BULLSHIT. Take five 2-week old characters and pit them against any 100m SP character (which has 100x as many SP as they do). Those 2-week old characters will win every time if they know how to engage. Look at GEEMU, Look at Brave Newbies when they started out. Take an Agony PvP Basic class and learn how effective a young pilot utilizing EWAR can be.



Digger Pollard wrote:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

5.) SP is only crucial in a few edge cases. Some ships need certain levels of skills to be flown effectively, but those are only a rare few. There are many, many other player skills that very much trump the typically minor boost your ship gains from level 4 vs level 5 in a skill. You obviously don't understand this game if you don't know this.

Every ship of the game is rare and few?
all-4 character is inferior to all-5 character by ~19% EHP and 20+% DPS in a T1 frigate - check yourself in EFT. How is SP not crucial again? How is level 5 not crucial again? Please...


Because stats don't win a fight. Sure, 20% more eft dps looks impressive, but it doesn't mean you apply 20% more dps. Your damage can be reduced or even completely prevented by a plethora of ingame mechanics. Furthermore, it can be ineffective when your opponent tanks the dps you successfully apply. In such situations, that 20% more EHP simply means you stay on field a little longer before you Die. There are only a few edge cases where having Level 5 skills will win you the fight you'd lose with level 4 skills.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#98 - 2014-06-08 17:49:22 UTC
Ved Riru wrote:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I come from the days before Attribute Remaps.

I spent the first couple hours learning to fly my ship, shooting NPC's in asteroid belts, and taking on L1 combat missions. It was difficult, and I lost several ships. This was before a skill que existed, so I would train short skills while I was online, and train learning skills while I was offline, sometimes alarm clocking to change skills. I know this sounds like gramps telling tails of walking to school in 6-feet of snow, uphill both ways, but EvE was much, much less noob friendly back then.

Skill Queue
Annual+ Attribute Remaps
No more learning skills
Better handouts from tutorial agents
Better skill progression design
More viable ships (instead of 1-2 viable frigates, 1-2 viable cruisers, etc, per racial class).

CCP is constantly improving the user experience, and we all appreciate that.

Thanks for that. I suspected Eve Online was different back when it started. Didn’t suspect it was as much different. It means the game developers understand the need for charge. Maybe that’s why at Eve Fanfest 2014 they revealed the fact that 50% of new players just quit, 40% level their Raven and mission and 10% move on to more interesting things in Eve Online. Maybe they want ideas about what their old-time customers and new customers want?


CCP has been systematically eliminating the skills that are "strongly desired" at V.

For example:
They just reduced the potency of the drone interfacing skills.
You no longer need Medium Gun Weapon Spec to get Large Gun Weapon Spec

The point is, a new player should focus on training skills to level 3 and level 4. It takes 8k * skill rank to train a skill to level 3. Even poorly specc'd, a character will typically earn 2k SP / hr, taking 4 hrs per rank to train a skill to level 3.

After 1 week, that is 42 skill ranks at level 3. With that, you can have most of your support skills, your hull skills, and your weapon skills for a single races frigates and dessies, and gain cruisers and BC's the following week. Are you ideally suited at that point to run a hard mission or solo a highly-skilled PvP'er. Generally no, but you can still attempt these things, and you can even succeed at them. This notion that you need 5m or 10m SP, or T2 weapons, or level 5 skills is not true.

SP is a tool that CCP uses to moderate teh rate of progression through the game. However, it generally doesn't prohibit you from partaking in different aspects of the game, but instead inhibits your ability to master those aspects without a time-based investment.
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2014-06-08 17:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Every ship of the game is rare and few?
all-4 character is inferior to all-5 character by ~19% EHP and 20+% DPS in a T1 frigate - check yourself in EFT. How is SP not crucial again? How is level 5 not crucial again? Please...

But why it's even bothering you? And why so many other ppl just don't give a damn? Is your FC comes after each and every op and tells you that you are worthless newb and should cancel your sub right away? Is every time you meet somebody who have EHP 20% greater than yours, your are being laughed at by everyone in your corp? What the problem with those damn levels, I wonder?

My main have around 2 years of active sub, and only ships I have at 5 are those that I needed to get to its t2 counterparts. I have zero t2 hulls at lv V, and I don't care a bit. In the end it means absolutely nothing when your are part of a large enough gang, and means very little if your gang small. And solo PvP in Eve are so crippled that I don't even care that my lv 4 vaga will lose to someone's lv5 one. I just doesn't fly it solo, or fly while being prepared to lose, there is nothing special to it.

Good god, please, stop this unreasonable perfectionistic madness, it will ruin all fun for you in Eve. Wait for half a year until you get all skills needed to V before undock and go to shoot something is probably one of the most nonsensical things you can resort to in Eve.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2014-06-08 17:55:04 UTC
The I want everything now crowd if appeased will ruin this game completely.

EVE isn't for everyone, especially the content locusts that play MMOs for less then one month and do nothing to increase the bottom line.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~