Science & Industry

OK, it looks like my timekeeping is terrible.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/forums/EVE/blueprints_public_draft_2.csv

(Right click, save as)

Some disclaimers, that some people are no doubt going to ignore, fun times:
- THIS IS NOT FINAL. It says "public draft" for a reason. (It says "2" because I messed something up.)
- The skin ships, for example, are all clearly "broken" right now, and will need special-casing in the final data set
- I have not examined individual use cases because there are 3000+ blueprints here and I wanted to get this in front of players sooner rather than later, this is just a general pass
- There are blueprints here that are clearly "junk"; if I have time I'm going to do a clear-up, but if not I want everything to at least be junk with nice numbers
- A few things are missing, because the data I'm working on is not quite current (I'll obviously update this before we ship!)
- Component data in particular needs revision, it's not done yet!
- SOME MECHANICS ARE CHANGING, in particular invention (see earlier posts). Please bear this in mind when evaluating, and ask questions :)

General notes:
- The core of everything here is Ranks, and I welcome extensive feedback on both generalities and particulars in terms of how ranks are selected (see below).
- Build time is generally rank * 300
-- T2 ammo is rank * 10 I believe
-- Capital ships have an *additional* 25x multiplier
-- Components are left with their old build times as there's balance work here I didn't want to mess with
- ME/TE research is 105 * rank for L1, as per the blog
- Copy time is build time * 0.8
-- T2 is currently build time * 3 to prevent various shenanigans; I'd like to reduce this before launch
- Reverse engineering is the same as current TQ times
- Invention time is...
-- Total build time for the output (1 run for ships, 10 runs for mods in all cases)
-- Plus build time for the T1 feedstock
-- All divided by 2 to approximate a 50% failure rate in invention
-- Minus copy time (for one run)
-- And then fuzzed up or down up to 10% depending on rank, so some things are slightly more build-bound and some things slightly more research-bound
- This is all calculated pre-skills, pre-facilities etc, raw numbers math



Rank selection:
- Mods are 3/6/9 for S/M/L, 6 for all "unsized" mods, 40 for capital mods, and 10x larger for T2
- Ships are 20-60 for subcaps (stepped through frigate/destroyer/cruiser etc in 10s), 200-600 for caps, and then again multiplied by 10 for T2
- Charges are 1/2/3/4 by size, * 10 for T2
- Drones are 1/2/3/40, * 10 for T2
- Starbase structures are somewhat arbitrary, turrets are 20/30/40, other structures are 40/60/80, and towers are 100/200/300
- Rigs are 5/10/15/20, * 10 for T2
- Components, RDbs etc need revision
- Misc stuff is misc - deployables are in the 5-15 range, outpost stuff is all approximately capital sized, various other things such as T3 gubbins are in the 2-3 range


I'll be back around 10pm EVE hopefully, please don't flip out if you see something horrific in the meantime.

-Greyscale

In the data dump, is Max Research for either ME/TE or both ME/TE? I.e. should I be doubling or a perfect BPO?

Is build time with perfect TE research or an un-researched blueprint?

I think build time in that draft table is without Industry skill applied and any TE research done.


CCP Greyscale - RIG BPO stats are right on the mark (all 314 of Tech1s and 314 of Tech2). Good job.

How current manufacturing jobs will react during patchday ?

Ahhh. Thst fixes it somewhat. Still a large change though.

one more thing we need to keep in mind:

skills (and lab boni !) need to be applied on TOP of greyscales data. those are significant. 20% manufacturing from Industry, 25% copy speed from Science, XX% invention time from the various labs (don't have the new numbers in mind)

For one or the other, double it for both.



That is a pretty reasonable rule of thumb that I will look into tomorrow.



Un-researched.



Excellent, thanks :)



Nope, invention times are raw time for just the invention job. Things will be longer on some things because I'm trying to spread module stats out a reasonable amount so all modules aren't just the same numbers, and that necessitates some things getting longer. I understand that this is different; if there's a reason it's actually problematic there are things that we can do to alleviate that to some degree (f.ex increase output runs, that is now trivial to adjust as it's just the max run count on each BP).



And worker bonuses :) Currently the plan is to get the "base" times lined up and then allow skills, facilities, workers, decryptors etc to fall more or less where they may. We're very much open to tuning all of these things to get nicer balance, but it's a somewhat fuzzy goal of mine right now to allow all the various bonuses to "pull things out of alignment", so while the simple, base jobs are very cleanly lined up, as you start to add in bonuses to make more money imperfections start to appear. The hope here is that for casual players it's all a pretty clean experience, but the more you min-max it the more quirks it throws out for you to try and optimize away :)

:whelp:

i'm still somewhat confused. i really want to see this on SiSi before commenting any further.

it looks like this is a rather significant increase of invention times for a lot of modules. it's hard to say what that means in light of decreased need for copys. especially with a need for different characters. there is also a whole lot of things with a whole lot of potential consequences. by itself, it's not a bad thing, its a thing.

the decryptor market is getting completely changed

demand for meta items in module invention will certainly change. meta items will get cheaper, the reduced clickfest will make it easier to use one and increased success matters a bit more if jobs are longer and overall more expensive.

a whole lot of changes with a whole lot of potential impacts. i really love the shakeups. good to see gamedesign being so bold about changing significant things. the market will eventually find a new equilibrium. i just wonder where it's gonna be :)

JF's are the most laffo but might be worth doing just for giggles.

Cap comps need more runs.