Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I ask this openly and propose that they are changed to do so.

Firstly these stats are based on a brand new character training the bare minimum skills to fly the hulls with t2 equipment.

To fly an interceptor it takes a mere 47 days from first sub to flying a t2 fit.

To fly a a nullied tengu it takes 99 days from first sub to flying a t2 fit.

To fly a hictor with a t2 bubble its takes a 143 days.

A decent fit hictor is generally over 300m which is on par with a t2 fit tech 3 cruiser. On its own a hictor cannot kill a ceptor unless it can instalock and scram it. Against a t3 unless its DPS fit, which would take away from most hictor tank fits it would be more than a fair fight since they are pretty much stationary. All that said hictors aren't solo, they bring friends.

Discuss.

Edit: proposals for changing hictors

A new script which imposed further debuffs on the hictor examples: reduced lock range and/or scan res, capacitor debuffs, reduction of bubble size to 15km.

Multiple T2 bubble generators, one to neutralize the interdiction nullification and an additional hictor/dictor to actually bubble.

A specialized T2 electronics rig that would act like a permanent script so that everytime a the non scripted t2 bubble was activated it would be the reduced bubble and what ever debuffs prescribed to catch interdiction nullified ships. I would find acceptable that this would only catch nullified ships, again needing further assets (pilot+training time+ isk) to accomplish the goal at hand.

All current nullified ships and modules are given a penalty that negatively affects Agility while in the influence of a bubble. (credit: Darth Kilth)

Why don't they?

Because the interdiction-nullifier mechanic is specifically intended as a counter to the area-of-effect warp disruption mechanic. If you want to catch a nullified ship, you need to use a targeted warp jammer - that is the whole point of the mechanic.

Trouble is, that training time and ISK isn't being spent 'to beat nullified ships' - a large chunk of it is just the minimum necessary to use bubble generators at all. 'Beating the ship specifically designed to beat you' isn't an appropriate advantage simply for upgrading to the T2 variant. Even a script is questionable - it still boils down to allowing the defender to beat interdiction-nullified ships by doubling-down on the strategy that nullifiers were designed to counter in the first place.

I'm not necessarily opposed to giving people a way to beat interceptors, but doing it with dictors is the wrong way to go about it.

Typically, specialists get a more powerful payoff than generalists (at their particular specialisation). A HIC pilot has spent their training time and ISK on being able to catch almost any ship in the game; an inty/T3 pilot has spent their time/ISK for, among other things, the ability to specifically counter one ship type: HICs.

The difference between a T1 bubble and a T2 bubble is ~17 days training and ~500k ISK, which I'd say isn't enough to justify being able to catch the ships specifically designed to beat you.


As I said above, I have no inherent objection to giving people a better way to catch nullified ships, I just think that upgraded HIC bubbles - even at the cost of heavy nerfs - isn't the way to do it.

My position is very straight-forward: the counter to a HIC is a nullified ship. The counter to a nullified ship should be something that is not a HIC.

Then what should it be? I really would like an answer instead of a generalized "No, but yes". I get and could agree the point of T2 generators isk+training time "not being worthy of the ability catch nullied ships", but doesn't change the fact that its a broken mechanic with no real defense against. Hictors should be the answer because A.) the training time is actually about a third longer at the base level than a t3 cruiser and B.) Its an expensive asset, that once a bubble is up is pretty stationary target that has the DPS of a wet pool noodle.

Addendum; I like how you don't classify a Hictor as a specialized ship but do for a T3. My only guess as to this thought process is because you think the subsystems, which is hilarious o.o

My objection to it being HICs is that balance should be rock < paper < scissors < rock, not rock < paper < better rock. It's not a question of HICs being unbalanced in the sense of being over- or under-powered, it's that allowing them to beat what was supposed to be their counter is bad game design regardless of how powerful they are otherwise.

Based on that logic, the counter to an interdiction-nullified ship should use targeted warp jammers - the 'lucky point' you mentioned earlier. If interceptors are too hard to stop at the moment, then the solution is to change something so that the defender doesn't need to be as lucky to land a point on them.

If I understand the mechanics correctly, one of the biggest problems is that you always need at least one server tick to lock on and then a second tick to activate the point (even if the point is supposedly preactivated) and interceptors can get as low as a two-second align time. It might be too difficult to implement, but perhaps the best solution would be to redo the code so that preactivated modules will trigger immediately on a lock-on, not one second later. If that's not practical (or not enough), then maybe interceptors need to have their agility or sig nerfed.

Or, as Derath implied, maybe players just need to get used to the idea that they can't completely lock down 'their' space and that scaring off the wolves without getting eaten counts as a victory in-and-of-itself even if all the wolves are still alive.


It's definitely a specialised ship in the abstract sense, but it's job is 'catch everything', while nullified ship's job is 'beat a HIC'. When being compared to this particular target it is the less specialised of the two combatants.

So 100% successful then. If they're gone, they're gone, regardless of what they're set on doing.

Is the primary purpose of the Hic bubble to trap people and keep them on grid? Or to alter their warp path? What if you had a ship/structure that had no inherent warp disruptino effect, and had a min dist to bubbles but dragged everyone to it, inc nullified vessels? To avoid is just beating ceptors it's sphere of influence couldnt overlap with warp disruption perhaps?

just brainstorming so maybe its a poor idea but I see it was a interesting tactic, would help catch those annoying cov ops t3s.

Fully supported.

Nullification should continue to work against deployable bubbles and regular Interdictor bubbles, but if I am willing to put my very skilled, expensive ship on the gate, I should at least have the opportunity to decloak and catch you before you burn out of my bubble.

The other solution would be to make it so that you cannot make a T3 that combines warping cloaked with Interdiction Nullification.

You're welcome. As you live in nullsec, I don't expect you to understand how to catch ships without using bubbles.