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[Kronos] Deep Space Transport Rebalance

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Author
Ra'Shyne Viper
Native Freshfood
#381 - 2014-05-24 09:08:21 UTC
I think the fleet hanger should of been added to the blockade runnersWhat?

DUST 514 player

Ingame name: Vin Vicious

Boz Dura
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#382 - 2014-05-24 09:26:54 UTC
Most high sec mercs in the know use triple sebo phobos on gate camps, and in null/low sec gate camps there are usually more then enough tackle to catch one of these, The extra tank means nothing if you cant go anywhere just a flying killmail the only use it had was anchoring towers and now you took that away its probably they most useless ship type in the game its just a small orca without the link bonuses or a tanky covert cyno lighter that is about it. Not that i know many people who use or will use these anyway but, pretty bad changes on all accounts.
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#383 - 2014-05-24 10:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ugh zug
my vote is to merge the 2 variants of transport ships together into one ship for the category.

but if i had to take a stab at this id say allow the ship to mjd instantly with 30 second cooldown at rank 5 take away it's rep bonus and give it a very large HP and fast align time base instead.

with role bonus of AOE/splash damage immunity.

remove the fleet hanger and in its place give the ship a starbase structure bay that can hold control towers and starbase modules with the right click option of deployment or just double its original cargo space and gut the bay all together.

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.

xXxNIMRODxXx
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#384 - 2014-05-24 11:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: xXxNIMRODxXx
Doritos God Legend wrote:
Mediocre changes at best. Increased survivability so you can burn back to the gate you just entered from, so that you can get pointed on the other side by the same gate camp you "escaped" when they follow you through (the nonaggressed ones anyway). This is also considering that you are not webbed and pointed on your way back to the gate, which you most likely will be. Additionally, the +5% velocity to DST is useless, +5% agility per skill level (considering DST's have a worse align time then battleships), or the suggested -5% to MMJD spool time per skill level would be much better.


And the option to scoop up Towers in fleet hangars...
Big Big Big Quote.

Edit: on a sidenote, may i suggest you to make a third variant of this ship's category with a Ship Maintenance hangar?
it would actually complete the picture...
Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#385 - 2014-05-24 14:57:07 UTC
Another candidate to update the Target Spectrum Breaker for fitting on something other than a Blops BS.
Captain Finklestein
Doomheim
#386 - 2014-05-24 19:24:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Finklestein
Boz Dura wrote:
Most high sec mercs in the know use triple sebo phobos on gate camps, and in null/low sec gate camps there are usually more then enough tackle to catch one of these, The extra tank means nothing if you cant go anywhere just a flying killmail the only use it had was anchoring towers and now you took that away its probably they most useless ship type in the game its just a small orca without the link bonuses or a tanky covert cyno lighter that is about it. Not that i know many people who use or will use these anyway but, pretty bad changes on all accounts.

1) You can cloak/MWD trick, while maintaining over 50k m3 cargo and a massive tank if you fail.
2) You can fit a massive tank approaching 300k EHP in order to resist suicide ganking in high-sec
3) Bait ship. Really awesome bait ship.

It has its uses and the changes are fine IMO. I still use them today even without the changes, because I understand that 150k EHP with a 7.5s align (AB module duration) is pretty much ungankable as long as you keep moving.

It's just more financially viable for me.

Hafwolf
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#387 - 2014-05-25 00:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Hafwolf
Hey an idea for transports having a 3 module system for them. 1 low, 1 mid, and a high slot to allow jump drives like black ops ships.
Since they will have a fleet hangers. It would be a cool feature.
Bhock
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#388 - 2014-05-26 15:23:17 UTC
The Deep Space Transport had a very limited use and needed a lot of love to shine, after the T1 Transports rebalance... and nerfing the cargo to add a fleet hangar is not at all what it needed.

50K m3 of fleet hangar is bringing nothing for it and a T2 transport with crap cargo is crap.

There is a need for a 50K-150K cargo hauler (why not a third flavor of T2 ?), but a fleet hangar is not an expected flavor, especially that it is already someone else flavor (and that someone else is already in need of love, too).

Don't break two ships at the same (nerf?/up?)... I don't see how this is some thing desireable (except for a cheap mini-orca).

If you don't want to put more cargo, make it a Null Sec transport, for structures and refuelling (why not Remote Repair Modules ? or a probe scanning immunity ?). The Blockade Runner got a Bloack Ops buff, with this second high slot (and it is great, even if now I lost my time training the prowler for it, in addition to the Viator for the cargo). Give a real buff to the Deep Space Trasnport, not a meh-whatever-useless.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#389 - 2014-05-26 16:11:57 UTC
From the "Blockade Runners" thread just spitballing some ideas:

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
I'm sure it's been mentioned already and the "Click to 1st Dev post" took me to Post #1 (*facepalm*) so:

Anyone flying a BR is cloaking, if you're not then you're failing. I think shifting the Scan Immunity to the DST from the BR would be a better move as it's a redundant bonus on a ship that should be cloaking as soon as it's moving.

DST's would become a wonderbox of risk = reward where it could be carrying billions or it could be empty...if you can pop it OFC.

I 'd love to know the numbers on how many BR's and DST's are used currently.

Flame on.


BRs get used a lot, DST rarely.

Also you idea needs tweaking, the scan immunity only works for NPC customs. This way the DST will have its specialized area but it will face risk from other players.


I was thinking exactly the same on "BRs get used a lot, DST rarely.".

OK, taking it a stage further what about shift the Scan Immunity to the DST and but give it a Special Cargo Hold (limited OFC) that only has the Scan Immunity applied to it. Reduce the main Cargo Hold to compensate for the extra and then you have choice as well as risk. Make the second cargohold immune to Customs scans as well. We might see more Illegal Goods getting into Hi-Sec and a much needed Smuggler career.

Sael Va'Tauri
Morgan Industry
Silent Infinity
#390 - 2014-05-26 19:27:34 UTC
Is there any chance of getting a little more faction based diversity in the DSTs prior to Kronos? Though I have already suggested a few different options, I'd be happy with anything that helps differentiate the different DSTs.
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
#391 - 2014-05-27 16:01:08 UTC
In regard of the new covert ops mining ship I would suggest to add the ability of using a covert jump portal to the Deep Space Transport.

If a mining corp decides to mine in some 0.0 space, they can jump in several covert miners, but how do they get the stuff back out? A covert transport can only hold 13-14 m³, which is less than 3m worth of ore. With the deep space transport being able to use covert JP, those ppl had the option to either go fully cloaked and less cargo, or partially cloaked with more cargo.
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
#392 - 2014-05-30 06:00:31 UTC
I tried adding two nanos to an Occator. It breaks 1900 overheated with a MWD and 640 with an AB. It takes three to four cycles to get up to speed though. I don't see burning back to gate in this.
Shivanthar
#393 - 2014-05-30 07:16:54 UTC
Eodp Ellecon wrote:
Another candidate to update the Target Spectrum Breaker for fitting on something other than a Blops BS.


I find this quite interesting on a DST Twisted

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.

Gosti Kahanid
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#394 - 2014-05-30 08:33:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Gosti Kahanid
I played a little bit with fittings on Sisi. Overheated, I was able to get a 650k EHP Tank on the Impel. This Beast is almost unkillable by a normal Gatecamp as long as the hardeners are working...
http://puu.sh/8U5HA.jpg

With this it should be rather easy for a support-Fleet to protect the transporter with barely any logistics
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
#395 - 2014-05-30 12:46:48 UTC
Give these ships a jump drive.
Anvil Dragon
Unity Venture
#396 - 2014-05-30 19:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Anvil Dragon
Like the cargo capacity for ships, even assembled frigates. Playing with one on the test server I wonder at the term hanger. There is no method to dock or undock. You are even unable to jettison an assembled frigate. So station to station transport only or perhaps move to another hauler (yet to try). Forming a fleet and activating the fleet/corp didn't help.

So, as a ship transport ok. As a hanger... You need to be in a hanger to use it.

Could you look at an option to dispence and scoop unmaned, assembled frigates without having to run to a station? Then I might use the word hanger.

Also, if POS support for now is no longer an option, could you at least look at a new ORE ship similar to the Primae but sized for the POS construction / support role? There is a need.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#397 - 2014-06-01 14:32:22 UTC
As usual the player base has no vision for these ships and has completely missed the boat on how excellent these changes are.

First, if the ONLY thing that changed on these ships was the increased cargo capacity, the update would be huge. Now industrialists have a ship with some 80K M3 capacity that they can fit inside a Rorqual or Orca or Carrier. The fleet hangar is a great idea as these ships should be fitted for tank and other attributes rather than for a standard cargo fit. Makes them much more interesting. Yes, they can't launch some POS modules. Looks like the cargo capacity has been changed so they can indeed launch a number of the smaller ones. However, we now have ships that can haul 80K M3 and don't cost 500 million or more. Huge win all by itself.

Now, as for the MMJD and combat statistics, all the moronic whining from the players seems to center on the fact that the ships are still quite killable with current tactics. So let me introduce a concept to the idiot players. If you want to run a blockade, get a blockade runner. These ships are not meant for long routes through low/null or gate camps. That's what BRs are for. They are meant for DEEP SPACE operations. Like deep blue space. So if you are out in null in your blue area and you need to transport some compressed ice from your ice mining system a couple of jumps over to your manufacturing outpost, you have a ship that can haul 80K and has enough defense to do it with a cloaky camper in system. Naturally if a horde of reds are in system you're going to wait until tomorrow. But you won't have to use a Miasmos that can be killed by a lone Purifier.

Silly ridiculous players, stop whining that this ship will not be able to slide through well-prepared gate camps without a hitch. The defense package on this ship (good tank stats, MMJD, Warp Stab) is designed to be a bit gimmicky and most of all interesting and unique, and to have the effect of helping the ship against some small threats and to help it against unexpected situations, such as when you're jumping in an area you thought was safe and a small roam comes through on its way to somewhere and did not expect to see you but has stumbled upon you. You now have some options.

The ship was not designed to be the be-all-end-all answer to eliminating the threat of gate camps. And you know what? If it was, the campers would incessantly whine about it.

I really just can't stand the Eve player base at this point.

Fozzie, these changes improve the ships 500% in a very interesting and out of the box sort of way. Great work.
Anvil Dragon
Unity Venture
#398 - 2014-06-01 20:53:10 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
As usual the player base has no vision for these ships and has completely missed the boat on how excellent these changes are.
*snip*

You now have some options.
*snip*

Fozzie, these changes improve the ships 500% in a very interesting and out of the box sort of way. Great work.


Agree with most of that. A big improvement and I will be purchasing.

Puttering around on the test server still. Bumped into an array of mobile warp units bubbling a gate and Serpentis on gate. Docked popped out a Claw and handled the problem, reloaded and on my way. Further out running through an Incursion zone and groups on the gate... not a problem. Even dropped by the test area and picked up all the spare frigates that were not blown up during the test. [in reality my Slashers were more of a flea people would swat between real targets].

One assemble frigate, five packaged, and a packaged Stabber with room to spare. Very nice.

Still, if I was in the middle off the Great Wildlands that assemble frigate would be useless until I got back to a settled area and could dock at a hanger to access the hanger.

I still have a wish to pop out an assembled ship and later scoop it up. It is just that, a wish.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#399 - 2014-06-02 12:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
So I took my Mastodon out once into 0.2. Got hit on the gate by 2 BS and 2 BC! I tanked with T2 Shield Hardeners and a T2 Medium Shield Booster I think it was (this was a few years ago now) and survived due to the Sentry Guns kicking some arse while I sourced fresh pants.

Moral of the story, these have BS+ tanks now and after Kronos even better to survive a few people gate camping, the MMJD should add some interesting twists adn with the extra hanger you can now have more tank but most will probably die in a ball of fire cos more m3 yo!

Post-Kronos hell I'll ride into Jita like Lady Godiva on the back of my Mastodon :)
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#400 - 2014-06-02 16:57:17 UTC
We've been using mammoths as our default cheap cloaky exploration loot dropoffs for a while. Having never really done industrial stuff I'm not familiar with fleet hangars.

Our usual gang is one logoffski/cloak hauler, generally doubleboxed by a "Martyr tackle" inty or ewar who's flying escort for the guys running the sites. Previously, we had to have someone sit/logout a venture on the off chance we score some good gas, which is a logistical nightmare when you don't score any good gas, as that dude is generally twiddling his thumbs out in the middle of whatever null sector our wormhole of the day has decided to poop us out in to. Generally speaking, docking to reship is not an option for our ops as our entire operational procedure is focused around backdooring to null and staying there a couple days until we fill the mammoth, or probe a decent hole chain to get back to empire in one piece so we can sell/use the loot.

What would make me invest in a DST to replace the cheapo mammoths:

If I could have my pilots all train the requisite cloak/probe/hack/gas mining skills simply hop out of their hacking frig, jet them a shiny new fitted prospect, and scoop the frig until the gas is all gobbled up, then they can swap back to the hacking frig. This would eliminate the "dead pilot" in the gas frig problem and get some old pilots back in game as they could doublebox more combat ships or just be actually hacking sites, AKA doin' stuff.

Can a fleet hangar do that?