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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

First post First post First post
Author
Xander Phoena
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1741 - 2014-05-21 14:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Phoena
Hopefully the swap from rigs to low slots will keep some of the doubters happy. The flexibility this provides should make for a far more interesting time for those of you wondering how to fit your freighters as opposed to simply putting in T2 rigs and never changing it.

CSM9 (particularly but not exclusively the likes of Mynnna, Corbexx, Steve Ronuken and Sugar Kyle) have worked real hard with Fozzie on getting these numbers right. Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

www.crossingzebras.com

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1742 - 2014-05-21 14:37:47 UTC
good thing i didn't already start building capital rigs :D

wts: cheap capital rig BPOs
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#1743 - 2014-05-21 14:39:04 UTC
FOZZIE YOU DID SOMETHING SMART

KEEP UP THE GOOD JOB

A++++
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#1744 - 2014-05-21 14:40:26 UTC
Ok, these changes I'm happy with!

Now, can we get the CPU to 30 to put a DCU II on there? Then I'll happily buy one and use it alot!

...

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1745 - 2014-05-21 14:42:04 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Ok, these changes I'm happy with!

Now, can we get the CPU to 30 to put a DCU II on there? Then I'll happily buy one and use it alot!


It was done this way to specifically avoid you being able to double your tank with one module.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1746 - 2014-05-21 14:43:04 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
good thing i didn't already start building capital rigs :D

wts: cheap capital rig BPOs


I bought one and started the copying but no great harm done.
Unwound a bunch of market orders before i even posted here. No real harm done there either.
Will be nice to switch between cargo, warp speed and tank as needed.
TY CCP, CSM and also Tippia for her tireless work in showing that bulkheads were underpowered and 0 CPU was fine for them.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Brutor Brutor
Kissapasi Corporation
#1747 - 2014-05-21 14:43:13 UTC
Helicopter Fozzie strikes again!


What the hell is going on with you mann?

What is with these radical changes every day then 180's the next?

Cant you just do small balance adjustments on say, assault frigs?
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#1748 - 2014-05-21 14:43:21 UTC
Adrien Crosse wrote:
Rorquals are also due for a full role overhaul and rebalance anyway, little point balancing other things around their current state.


Yes they are. Here's what I think CCP will do to the Rorqual based on how their other ideas have been going recently:

(1)

The Rorqual will have its fleet hanger, ore hold and cargo bay reduced in capacity so they can only fit 1 unit of veldspar but the option to fit up to 1 capital rigs to increase the size to 2 veldspar will be provided. Also note the price of these rigs will be two trillion isk each.

(2)

You won't be able to dock the Rorqual or warp it to zero and it can only be logged in if you're in an asteroid belt in a system that has at least 3 logged out cloaky hot-dropping campers with dual cynos.

(3)

A new "auto-eject" feature will be provided for the pilot. When in the Rorqual, the pilot has 30 seconds to siege it. If he doesn't, he's automatically ejected from the ship and auto-piloted to Yong. Note that (2) applies here as well - he can't get into the ship unless there are at least 3 logged out cloaky hot-droppers in system at that precise moment.

(4)

All stats for Rorqual shields will be set to zero and reduced to 1% resist across the board. Also see (3) and (2). You can only use the shield booster if you don't fit one and it only works if there's nobody shooting you.

(5)

That's enough CCP Rorqual rebalancing ideas from me.
Zifrian
The Pannion Domin
Ghostbirds
#1749 - 2014-05-21 14:44:27 UTC
Ok, I like this more than the rigs. The customization is much better and easier. Great change.

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Valterra Craven
#1750 - 2014-05-21 14:45:44 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:

Power projection is what creates massive coalitions resulting in boring, stagnant gameplay and empty space. Just because there's *some* stuff happening doesn't mean it's not a borefest. If you can't understand this then I don't know what to tell you.


No, power projection has nothing to do with empty space. Null was just as empty before power projection existed and it will be just as empty if it doesn't exist.
Dave Stark
#1751 - 2014-05-21 14:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
inb4 "i can't fit a DCU II to my freighter" whines.

Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Ok, these changes I'm happy with!

Now, can we get the CPU to 30 to put a DCU II on there? Then I'll happily buy one and use it alot!


actually, looks like i shouldn't have nipped out for a short while. damn.
Xander Phoena
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1752 - 2014-05-21 14:45:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Ok, these changes I'm happy with!

Now, can we get the CPU to 30 to put a DCU II on there? Then I'll happily buy one and use it alot!


It was done this way to specifically avoid you being able to double your tank with one module.


This.

You aren't getting DCUs on a freighter.

www.crossingzebras.com

Rainbow Dash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1753 - 2014-05-21 14:46:46 UTC
Some people are gonna get dunked with the change from rigs to low slots. I approve.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#1754 - 2014-05-21 14:47:28 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone the Op has now been updated with a revised version of the design. Let us know what you think!


That's a whole lot of changes all in one go...


- using low slots: due to the many different low slot modules you're going to get quite funky results in stats and I'm not so sure it'll balance out evenly across the different freighters (in fact I'm fairly sure it won't). Because it's all low slots you might want to normalise shield/armour/structure a bit because any deviation will be amplified by those low slots


- low slot warp modules, I'm not a fan because that's going to cause massive balancing issues going back to the "shield is superior in every way" era. Are those a result of there being an actual needed for them or are they a knee jerk reaction to the "freighters now get low slots" thing?

- Why are you buffing freighters? why did you cave in to the 0.0 sock puppet lobbyists?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1755 - 2014-05-21 14:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone the Op has now been updated with a revised version of the design. As many of you were anticipating, we will be achieving the goal of customizability through low slots instead of rig slots. Big thanks to everyone who has provided reasoned feedback in the thread and special thanks to the CSM.

The most significant issues raised in the thread about the previous version of the design are:
  • The permanence of customizability that relies completely on rigs. As the only classes to have rig slots alone with no fitting slots, Freighters and Jump Freighters would have allowed customization towards a player's most common use cases, but would still lack the very important ability to adjust fittings in response to changing needs and environments.
  • The relative lack of interesting choices for Jump Freighter pilots. Due to the very unique situation of Jump Freighters, they did not receive very significant benefits from any rigs other than cargohold optimization. This is partially an issue with the lack of gameplay around JF use and their near complete safety when used optimally, but it also reflected a lack of good options.

To deal with the first issue, we are making the significant change of providing the goal of customizability through low slots rather than rig slots. Keeping this path balanced requires a few extra tricks but we believe that it will provide a more interesting set of gameplay choices for freighter pilots to make on an everyday basis.
All Freighters and Jump Freighters will receive 3 low slots, and not receive any rig slots. They will have very restrictive powergrid and cpu totals, and a special role bonus that allows the use of Reinforced Bulkhead modules.

In Kronos we are also adding a new set of low-slot warp speed enhancing modules that can be obtained through low-sec exploration. These modules will increase warp speed by a flat addition of 0.2, 0.25 or 0.3 au/s each. We expect that these will be popular modules for use on Freighters.

To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos.

So we expect that most Freighter and Jump Freighter pilots will use their three low slots to mix and match the following modules to meet their needs:
  • Expanded Cargoholds
  • Reinforced Bulkheads
  • Hyperspatial Accelerators (warp speed modules)
  • Inertia Stabilizers
  • Overdrive Injector Systems
  • (For certain armor tanking fits) Adaptive Nano Platings
  • (For Jump Freighters) Capacitor Power Relays
  • (For Jump Freighters after the Crius release) Jump Fuel Conservation Modules


The base cargo capacity of Freighters is being decreased so that a set of three Tech Two Expanded Cargoholds adds 21-25% cargo above the previous maximum values. For Jump Freighters, three T2 Expanders will increase cargo capacity by 1-2%.
This means that Freighters can get significantly higher maximum capacity than before using modules, and we're increasing the volume of packaged capital ships (to 1.3 million m3) and unpackaged station containers (to 2 million m3) to compensate.

The base EHP of all Freighters and Jump Freighters is being increased (since Expanded Cargoholds affect freighter hp more than cargo rigs do) and more emphasis is being placed on armor and shield than before (although all Freighters still gain the majority of their hitpoints from hull).

Let us know what you think!

Interesting… cue number crunching. P

First impression is good. The fitting space and the bulkhead bonus should keep the design space controlled enough to let us do interesting things without creating a cascading mess of balancing problems. Still, with 3× Estamel Copros, you'll get a whole 2 tf out of these things (and no slots left to use it) — are you ready for this?
Kuda Timberline
Not Quite Stable
#1756 - 2014-05-21 14:49:13 UTC
This is a great change!

Thanks Fozzie!

Kuda Timberline

Co-host Capstable Podcast

TheMercenaryKing
Ultimatum.
#1757 - 2014-05-21 14:50:18 UTC
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?
Valterra Craven
#1758 - 2014-05-21 14:50:54 UTC
Xander Phoena wrote:
Hopefully the swap from rigs to low slots will keep some of the doubters happy. The flexibility this provides should make for a far more interesting time for those of you wondering how to fit your freighters as opposed to simply putting in T2 rigs and never changing it.

CSM9 (particularly but not exclusively the likes of Mynnna, Corbexx, Steve Ronuken and Sugar Kyle) have worked real hard with Fozzie on getting these numbers right. Looking forward to hearing your feedback.


I like this better but I still don't like the fact that armor can be tanked somewhat (resistance plates) and shields can not. This wouldn't have been a big deal had you leave HP values in hull so every could tank roughly equally, but since you guys moved such a large chunk of HP to shields and armor this seems to be an unfair advantage for armor based races.

I wish i knew how to edit EFT files to create fits based off this to see just what the difference is.
Ben Hatton
The Fifth Dimension
#1759 - 2014-05-21 14:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Hatton
Horaaaaaaaaay!!!! Thanks Fozzie and CSM. While I'll lose a decent sum on the speculation I did, I'm still happy with the way its going forward and much rather this solution and loose some isk than the old one.

Anyone in need of 50 T1 Cap Cargo Ops? haha
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1760 - 2014-05-21 14:51:11 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


You can't use them on a freighter, and hopefully never. I don't want mine to be nerfed to compensate for the thumbless monkeys who can't figure out how to make one extra mouseclick per jump.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.