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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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Dave Stark
#1141 - 2014-05-19 13:38:28 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Of which you can only use 40k to transport things that are not assembled ships or ore. Yeah, that is certainly a good ship to transport Courier Contracts or quantities of modules, minerals, etc.


actually, it's more than 40k
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1142 - 2014-05-19 13:38:40 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Of which you can only use 40k to transport things that are not assembled ships or ore.
It's upwards of 100k, actually… but it makes the ship a lot worse if you do. Blink
Valterra Craven
#1143 - 2014-05-19 13:41:03 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:

Make smaller new freighters.


I'll say this slowly for you...

DEEP SPACE TRANSPORT SHIPS!

-OR-

ORCA


I'll say this slowly for you... none of those ships do 500k m3.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1144 - 2014-05-19 13:43:49 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
I'll say this slowly for you... none of those ships do 500k m3.

If you just want a sturdier, faster ship with half the cargo, JFs pretty much do that already. Orcas do about half of what a JF does (if we ignore the ship hangar). DSTs do about half of whan an Orca does.
Valterra Craven
#1145 - 2014-05-19 13:44:58 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:

3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.


I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them.

At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game.

A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties.
A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1146 - 2014-05-19 13:45:59 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:

Make smaller new freighters.


I'll say this slowly for you...

DEEP SPACE TRANSPORT SHIPS!

-OR-

ORCA


None is suitable to transport things between 100k and 300k m³.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1147 - 2014-05-19 13:46:53 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:

3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.


I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them.

At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game.

A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties.
A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees.


Anybody want to buy this guy a clue?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Valterra Craven
#1148 - 2014-05-19 13:47:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
I'll say this slowly for you... none of those ships do 500k m3.

If you just want a sturdier, faster ship with half the cargo, JFs pretty much do that already. Orcas do about half of what a JF does (if we ignore the ship hangar). DSTs do about half of whan an Orca does.


The goal here is to comprise.

People wanted riggable freighters and those of us that are sane don't want these massive across the board nerfs.

JFs cost 7-8x times as much as regular freighters.

These would cost around the same as orcas, wouldnt have the boosting of orcas and would be totally devoted to hauling.

Personally I want nothing to change here at all, but I'm trying to come up with reasonable solutions.
Dave Stark
#1149 - 2014-05-19 13:47:42 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:

3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.


I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them.

At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game.

A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties.
A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees.


they might be an item sink, but they aren't an isk sink.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1150 - 2014-05-19 13:49:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Valterra Craven wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:

3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.

I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them.

At best freighter ganks are a sink
No. You don't understand what the term means.
We're talking about ISK here. No ISK is removed from the game. Every freighter loss is a giant ISK faucet since their destruction creates ISK through insurance.

Wulfy's original claim was that reducing the freighters' EHP made them into an ISK sink. Sipphakta entirely accurately corrected him by pointing out that a freigther kill is an ISK faucet.
Rivr Luzade wrote:
None is suitable to transport things between 100k and 300k m³.
Again, JFs fit that role perfectly.
Valterra Craven
#1151 - 2014-05-19 13:49:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Fozzie, I know you guys see these posts, and I know you can't comment on everything, and lastly I know that introducing art assets to the game takes time. However this is my proposal and will likely be far more appeasing to all parties involved than the current changes.

Leave the current freighters as they are.

Make smaller new freighters.

Make them have half the cargo, hit points, align time and build cost and double the warp speed.

Give them 3 rig slots

Win

OR

Leave the current freighters alone

Make ONE new freighter in the ORE line with the above stats and say that ORE needed something with better agility for deep space mining or some mobo jumbo like that.


Already in game... it's called an Orca.


Because an orca has 500k m3???


400k smb
50k ore bay
40k fleet hangar
whatever your cargo ends up at with skills and fittings...

yeah, it does have 500k m3... technically.


No it does not. If you could put 400k of regular general cargo in the SMB then you might have a point. but you can't. So you arent adding anything relevant to this conversation.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1152 - 2014-05-19 13:50:49 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:

3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.


I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them.

At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game.

A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties.
A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees.


they might be an item sink, but they aren't an isk sink.


and they ARE an isk faucet because of insurance.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dave Stark
#1153 - 2014-05-19 13:51:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:

3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.


I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them.

At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game.

A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties.
A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees.


they might be an item sink, but they aren't an isk sink.


and they ARE an isk faucet because of insurance.

correct.

Valterra Craven wrote:
So you arent adding anything relevant to this conversation.

neither are you, you're just whining.
Valterra Craven
#1154 - 2014-05-19 13:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Tippia wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:

3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.

I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them.

At best freighter ganks are a sink
No. You don't understand what the term means.
We're talking about ISK here. No ISK is removed from the game. Every freighter loss is a giant ISK faucet since their destruction creates ISK through insurance.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
None is suitable to transport things between 100k and 300k m³.
Again, JFs fit that role perfectly.


I like how you are correcting me by putting words in my mouth.

Sinks and faucets can apply to game items as well as isk.

Insurance applys to every ship in game so the applicability to this ship is rather limited when talking about game balance as a whole.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1155 - 2014-05-19 13:53:59 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:

I like how you are correcting me by putting words in my mouth.

Sinks and faucets can apply to game items as well as isk.

Insurance applys to every ship in game so the applicability to this ship is rather limited when talking about game balance as a whole.


You are really bad at forums.

You even said "isk sink" when you were talking about freighters.

And you're wrong, because you have no freaking clue what you're talking about, because insurance is totally a thing as it turns out.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Valterra Craven
#1156 - 2014-05-19 13:54:17 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


Valterra Craven wrote:
So you arent adding anything relevant to this conversation.

neither are you, you're just whining.



Well we have me proposing alternative solutions to get things to a better state than we have now, and we have you who is only filling this thread with I told you so posts... Looks to me like the whining is falling more on your side than mine.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1157 - 2014-05-19 13:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Tippia wrote:

Rivr Luzade wrote:
None is suitable to transport things between 100k and 300k m³.
Again, JFs fit that role perfectly.


They absolutely don't. JF fill a completely different role. They are rather miss-used as smaller gate-to-gate freighters and from a price point are in an absolutely different league.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Valterra Craven
#1158 - 2014-05-19 13:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:

I like how you are correcting me by putting words in my mouth.

Sinks and faucets can apply to game items as well as isk.

Insurance applys to every ship in game so the applicability to this ship is rather limited when talking about game balance as a whole.


You are really bad at forums.

You even said "isk sink" when you were talking about freighters.

And you're wrong, because you have no freaking clue what you're talking about, because insurance is totally a thing as it turns out.


If I'm bad at forums you are as equally as bad at reading: This is my orginal post that is still unedited:

Valterra Craven wrote:

#1193Posted: 2014.05.19 13:44 | Report
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:

3. Every freighter killed is a giant ISK faucet, spewing several hundred million ISK into the economy.


I really really dislike people that don't understand what terms mean before they use them.

At best freighter ganks are a sink as they remove things from the game.

A faucet is something that creates something from thin air. aka NPC bounties.
A sink is something that removes something from the economy, aka taxes and sov fees.


NO WHERE IN MY RESPONSE DID I MENTION THE TERM ISK.

But yes insurance is a thing and it applies to all ships, not just this one.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1159 - 2014-05-19 13:58:09 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
I like how you are correcting me by putting words in my mouth.
You mean by cutting off your failed attempt at correcting him when he was right all along?

Quote:
Sinks and faucets can apply to game items as well as isk.
Yes, but we're only talking about iSK here. You started by saying that you dislike when people misuse the term faucet and sinks, as if to imply that his correct answer was a misuse of the term. You then went off on a completely irrelevant tangent.

Quote:
Insurance applys to every ship in game so the applicability to this ship is rather limited when talking about game balance as a whole.
We're not talking about game balance as a whole. We're talking about how reducing the EHP on freighters does not turn them into ISK sinks. So how about you stop trying to make yourself correct by putting words in other people's mouths, hmm…?

Quote:
NO WHERE IN MY RESPONSE DID I MENTION THE TERM ISK.
In other words, your response was 100% irrelevant.
Dave Stark
#1160 - 2014-05-19 13:58:11 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


Valterra Craven wrote:
So you arent adding anything relevant to this conversation.

neither are you, you're just whining.



Well we have me proposing alternative solutions to get things to a better state than we have now, and we have you who is only filling this thread with I told you so posts... Looks to me like the whining is falling more on your side than mine.

considering i haven't whined once; and literally every post of yours in the last 2 pages has been whining about orcas not carrying 400k of cargo...

you might want to check the tally again, darlin'.