Player Features and Ideas Discussion

yes they were.

i'm personally hoping for a CCP 180 and say "yeah we'll leave freighters alone, but this is what balance looks like... be careful what you wish for". i doubt it will happen, though. so on a more realistic level; i think they should at least knock it down to large rigs (justification: orca) if they're not going to scrap these changes.

I, too, can kill idiots.

Co-founder of Black Frog checking in. I probably fly jump freighters as much as nearly anyone in Eve, and I'm not quite sure how I feel yet, despite the pages of comments that have gone before me!

It's possible there will be some self interest in my assesment of the proposed changes but I cetainly don't feel that there will be particularly, as ultimately Frog clients will bear the costs of the changes (either through reduced carrying capacity for the same reward, or an increased reward for the same carrying capacity). That affects our clients more than it affects us.

I'm not particularly upset by the cargo nerf, as a full set of t1 capital rigs brings that back to close to where it was before. T1 capital rigs cost only a fraction of the cost of a jump freighter, so that doesn't bother me particularly.

The agility nerf came out of the blue. Given how boring it is waiting for freighters of all descriptions to align before entering warp, I can't see it adding to game enjoyment, but you could always bring a webber along with you to speed things along. Personally, I spend as little time as possible in hisec these days - jump freighters primary drive is their jump drive, not their warp drive.

The biggest issue with rigging is the permanence of the decision, when freighters and jump freighters are used for multiple and different purposes at different times. Nobody is going to buy a set of personalised freighters or jump freighters for these different purposes.

I do heartily approve of the concept of tradeoffs between cargo/agility/EHP. That's smart game design. No issues there.

What would make the choices more meaningful, rather than set and forget choices like rigging, would be if they could be achieved via regular slots and modules like almost every other ship in Eve. Then I could choose to fly through hisec with increased cargo (but at the risk of reduced EHP), or choose to reduce my cargo (but increase my tank), or buff my agility when I plan to do lots of inter-station hauling (at the cost of reduced cargo and EHP). That would lead to a variety of choices I'd have to make every time I undock my freighter, which would, to be honest, make one of the boringest professions in eve slightly more interesting and thoughtful than the brain numbering state of logistics today for many people.

EVE is supposed to be a game, not a job Fozzie. It's already tedious enough flying around in these freighters, a small buff would have hardly caused the game to break. Now your just requiring more time and money to get SOME of the same results back - And in turn making EVE (especially hauling) more of a second job than a bloody game. And as an avid wormhole fan, I think this is just yet another low blow to wormhole residents.

Ahh so I was also correct and did in fact say this would happen. I shall now join the 'Told you so' group.

Always, always be careful what you wish for.

i think we're getting some t-shirts made up.

No. I was excited for the freighter pilots, hoping it would give them better options. Over the course of my now many years of being an EVE pilot this was the first time I saw something announced for freighter pilots. I have not followed threads here where people, very astutely it turns out, warned about 'getting what you wish for'.

It's no skin off my nose though. I can fly a freighter but I don't have one. My Orcas have proven to be adequate for my purpose. A freighter has never seemed like a worthwhile investment. Now even less so.

I joined this conversation because I was surprised about these changes. I appreciate, wholeheartedly agree with and welcome the risk/reward equation in EVE. In my previous posts I have asked what the reward here is for the freighter pilot because I have a hard time seeing one.

This is about the worst possible implementation of giving freighters 'customisation' and simply serves to perpetuate the idea that industry characters are second class citizens there to be used as punching bags by people that like to shoot things.
And has significant follow on effects to POS's with regards to changing capital sizes also.

The much better solution would have been to chop the cargo hold into several smaller holds and get rid of the worry about limiting carrying capitals once & for all. Several special holds that increase by level, say 300k m^3 each. And a similar sized Cargo hold that you can choose to affect with Cargo rigs. Then give them a real amount of fittings and slots, let them fit at least BS sized active tanks tanks, along side current passive EHP, 100MN MWD's, MJD's, the works. If not actual Capital size tanks. At least 10 slots.

Now you have actual choice involved in how you fit them rather than crazy gimped fitting options that will always be an obvious nerf

Bad changes, leave them as is, screw the rigs and some EHP or agility one of the 2. Frieghtor work is annoying enough as is no need to make it more painful. Suicide ganking freighters is stupid easy, this just makes it easier, or makes logistics take even more god aweful long.

Logistics work is the worst aspect of the game at current, why do a few seem to think its OP/to easy idk. NEWS FLASH, unless dramatic changes are made there will be little to no incentive to mine to the extent needed in null to move industry there and even then it will have to be exported to sell off the excess in order to make money in HS. Half of nulls logistics wizards are about to be on even more extreme suicide watch, there is a reason it exists. If anything proposed changes are creating an atmoshpere to make null less dynamic because of logistics becoming more a PITA. This is not what we want, we want changes that fan the flames of war and encourage the break down of the mega coalitions.

Increased fuel consumption/prices, decreased hauling capacity if you actually want to live are raising the barrier to entry to null and low not lowering ti and lowering it is what we want. The big empires will shoulder these costs bitching and moaning the whole time, but they wont change how they operate just put there massive incomes to work and say "meh"

any chance that you could follow some of the others and leave for Riot? its obvious that you are completely out of touch and out of your depth with this game.