Player Features and Ideas Discussion

actually it wouldn't. logistics is currently immune to pvp, even though this is a pvp game. currently you can't even prevent a JF or capital from travelling if you're in empire space. you certainly can't kill it one at all.
by removing the tackle immunity from siege/triage, needing a cyno to be up for a time before it can be jumped to, and making jumping be a proess which takes time and can be cancelled by tackling, removing 100mn prop exploits from caps and web instawarping, probably adding minimum jump range constraints (like on pos) to stations and yeah I guess a nice jump range nerf (did I forget anything), jump drives would be less silly. oh, and bridging and pos titans would need to be horribly ruined in some way as well, but I've not thought about that.
I'd also like to see jump freighters lose their jump drives and turn into tanky stabbed freighters or something, and see massively reduced hauling abilities on caps. basically I think forcing people to do freighter runs would be really neat, and add to the game.

Huh?


None of that would change anything. If an alliance needs to move from X to Y, they will. It will just require more alts, and be a bigger PITA.

Wait...what? So a 6.5b jf, wich will be slower, shittier, and consume more fuel after this 'fix', wich will then also need another ~1billion in t2 rigs to make the hold on par with what it now is, and this is called a SMALL reduction? I really really hope you are kidding. If anything, these stupidly expensive haulers need a boost, not a stupid nerf.

Welcome back shotgunning freighters, i guess.

Why? This is supposed to be an industry expansion?

Suicide ganking is already making freighter usage pretty much impossible between the major hubs. Why make things worse? The isotope consumption thing is already going to cripple small alliance logistics and nothing else, and this just make things worse. Requiring expensive rigs to hit the old values does nothing but inflate killmail values for the no brain, no skill required suicide ganks that are ruining the ability for freighters to serve their purpose within the game. If anything, freighters should be getting an overall EHP buff to counter the fact that they're hilariously easy to kill, and this will make it even worse.

Disclaimer: I suicide gank freighters with CODE on a consistent basis. You dock up, you get a free Talos, you go blob a freighter, wait 15 minutes, and repeat. There is absolutely no skill or risk involved whatsoever. Part of what we do is to show the devs how stupidly obsolete freighters have become, and this just puts the nail in the coffin.

I agree entirely.

Alas, I would plan for this going through, I will be fitting warp speed rigs to mine and just lumping the hit to my cargo.

Honestly, they should just remove the attack battlecruisers from the game entirely. It solves this problem (it'll now cost you 3x as much to suicide gank a freighter) alongside a host of other ones.

I know speaking for both sides of an argument makes winning said argument pretty easy. But how about we do this you state your side of the argument and you let me handle my side (so stop putting words into my mouth I never said).

I knew that and spoke of the need to nerf freighters in order to be able to fit them with rigs and mods. My arguments always centered around nerfing freighters in such a way that when all was said and done you would be able to rig/mod your ship to have exactly the same stats as it has now. I even went so far as to suggest that freighter exclusive rigs and mods be added to the game to make balancing easy.

My argument is simple. When 99.9% of all ships in a game are balanced around rigs and mods the same shouldn't be such an elusive concept that CCP devs couldn't accomplish it ( except perhaps for Fozzie who apparently completely missed the point of our request for change since what we sought was flexibility and what he plans on giving us is the very antithesis of flexibility, namely a rig only solution). Rigs are a ships backbone not something you swap out to head to jita. Mods are where flexibility comes in and we are apparently getting none of that.

The Orca can have many adjustments made using mods. I want freighters to be able to change between tank and carrying capacity, simple.

Fozzie, for the love of Bob, please undo those mass increases! Keep them under 1M mass so that they can still fit through an M555 or D792 wormhole between high class w-space and hisec. You have not presented ANY compelling balance reason whatsoever for preventing wormhole residents from using freighters. Mass is not just a component in the align time calculation, it is of vital concern for it's ability to access certain regions of space.

If this change goes through as proposed we're going to see a lot of freighters stuck in wormholes until they get a lowsec connection adjacent to high, making wormhole logistics even more painful than it already is, which is not needed at all.

Edit: After a few minutes thought, these changes seem aimed at preventing Titan-bridged freighters from becoming a more economical method of transport than JFs, but that's no reason to screw over wormhole folks. Increasing max jump mass on those holes isn't possible either, or caps would enter HS through them. You can either forbid freighters from using direct C5/C6 --> HS connections, or permit titans to bridge freighters cheaply; I urge you to pick the latter.

hes probably too busy coming up with some damagecontrol over these **** poor changes

Freighters are really too slow.
Why? Is there a reason for that?
If they were two times faster that will not change the capacity to gank them, that would not change the need of transport.
Why should we spend 3hours to move something. As if 1h30 was not ebough boring.