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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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Author
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#2141 - 2014-05-21 20:35:06 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Also, has anyone run the numbers for what the new baseline is for cargo cost?

Aka if you run with no low slots how much value can you stuff before you get ganked?

More than current, for sure. 2.5b I would reckon, practically. Probably around 500m minimum.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2142 - 2014-05-21 20:35:12 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Yes, at significant costs to your ships capability.
It would hardly be “better results” then, now would it?
No, the costs are not significant. In fact, you'll end up with a better ship with a bulkhead/expander combo than if you try to armour tank the poor thing.

Remember, an expander cancels out a bulkhead but a bulkhead does not cancel out an expander. Put the two together and you get something that's better than you had before. That leaves you a third module to push on in whatever direction you're interested in.
Vetium
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2143 - 2014-05-21 20:36:19 UTC
110 pages and not.

I hope CCP realizes that it hit a wound here. (and I doubt it's the one of gankers)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2144 - 2014-05-21 20:37:01 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Also, has anyone run the numbers for what the new baseline is for cargo cost?

Aka if you run with no low slots how much value can you stuff before you get ganked?


Granted, this is napkin math since I'm at work.

No lowslots is about 900 mil.

Triple bulkheads turns into about 2.4 billion.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Cekle Skyscales
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2145 - 2014-05-21 20:38:26 UTC
Change the bulkheads cpu bonus to a damage control cpu bonus.
Sieges
#2146 - 2014-05-21 20:39:02 UTC
Seems like it would be better to not make any changes to the freighters and jump freighters unless they have been deemed overpowered or oversized, or...? Roll The only customization I would have wanted, would be to paint my Charon flat black.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#2147 - 2014-05-21 20:41:53 UTC
The maximum ehp you can get on freighters and JFs is too big.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2148 - 2014-05-21 20:42:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Yes, at significant costs to your ships capability.
It would hardly be “better results” then, now would it?
No, the costs are not significant. In fact, you'll end up with a better ship with a bulkhead/expander combo than if you try to armour tank the poor thing.

Remember, an expander cancels out a bulkhead but a bulkhead does not cancel out an expander. Put the two together and you get something that's better than you had before. That leaves you a third module to push on in whatever direction you're interested in.

Only reason I could see for adding a plate is when you have a inertia stab and hyperspatial mod in the other two slots. It's really just a fringe option.
Valterra Craven
#2149 - 2014-05-21 20:42:29 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Also, has anyone run the numbers for what the new baseline is for cargo cost?

Aka if you run with no low slots how much value can you stuff before you get ganked?


Granted, this is napkin math since I'm at work.

No lowslots is about 900 mil.

Triple bulkheads turns into about 2.4 billion.


Man,I just realized how many combos there are that could affect this. Lol now we need a tool to determine cargo value based on fit!

1 expander 1 bulkhead, and 1 adaptive nano plating?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2150 - 2014-05-21 20:44:10 UTC
Stop asking for DCU. It's a terrible idea. There is a reason they have restrictive fittings. DCU has no drawbacks other than not having a 3rd slot for cargo.
Valterra Craven
#2151 - 2014-05-21 20:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Wrong button.
Dave Stark
#2152 - 2014-05-21 20:50:43 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Stop asking for DCU. It's a terrible idea. There is a reason they have restrictive fittings. DCU has no drawbacks other than not having a 3rd slot for cargo.

and provides an absurd ehp buff.
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2153 - 2014-05-21 20:53:56 UTC
If it wasn't obvious that the anemic CPU output was specifically to prevent you from putting a DCU on your Freighter then I don't know what to tell you.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2154 - 2014-05-21 20:56:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Also, has anyone run the numbers for what the new baseline is for cargo cost?

Aka if you run with no low slots how much value can you stuff before you get ganked?


Granted, this is napkin math since I'm at work.

No lowslots is about 900 mil.

Triple bulkheads turns into about 2.4 billion.


How about the full cargo failwhale? They should be rare but we all know they will happen.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2155 - 2014-05-21 20:58:02 UTC
Cekle Skyscales wrote:
Change the bulkheads cpu bonus to a damage control cpu bonus.


NO unless it also completely prevent you from warping so you have to slowboat gate to gate.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2156 - 2014-05-21 21:03:16 UTC
The base cargo capacity of Freighters is being decreased so that a set of three Tech Two Expanded Cargoholds adds 21-25% cargo above the previous maximum values. For Jump Freighters, three T2 Expanders will increase cargo capacity by 1-2%.

That change still confuses me. I don't use either frighters or JF but it seems stupid to nerf the T2 version in this way. The way this reads regular freighters get up to 21-25% boost while JFs get next to nothing over what they were before this change. Yes they have more choice now, but it gives little reason for cargo capacity to be one of those choices as it doesn't boost it all that much beyond what it used to have.

That means either all cargo expanders or a severely gimped cargo hold. You might as well out right mention that you are nerfing JF rather then trying to disguise it in this manner.
Igor Wodkowicz
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2157 - 2014-05-21 21:05:17 UTC
Roll back all tank changes, take a bit of structure away, and then make role bonus something like '75% reduction in Expanded Cargohold structure amount penalty' or something like that - that could be interesting one
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#2158 - 2014-05-21 21:07:28 UTC
Why the special case for reinforced bulkheads over just making bulkheads some 0-1 for fitting?

I wonder if nanos mean I still need a web alt or can be bumped so easy...
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#2159 - 2014-05-21 21:08:58 UTC
Lyra Gerie wrote:
The base cargo capacity of Freighters is being decreased so that a set of three Tech Two Expanded Cargoholds adds 21-25% cargo above the previous maximum values. For Jump Freighters, three T2 Expanders will increase cargo capacity by 1-2%.

That change still confuses me. I don't use either frighters or JF but it seems stupid to nerf the T2 version in this way. The way this reads regular freighters get up to 21-25% boost while JFs get next to nothing over what they were before this change. Yes they have more choice now, but it gives little reason for cargo capacity to be one of those choices as it doesn't boost it all that much beyond what it used to have.

That means either all cargo expanders or a severely gimped cargo hold. You might as well out right mention that you are nerfing JF rather then trying to disguise it in this manner.

JFs are getting huge ehp boost though. Way more than freighters, so I think it's balanced.
777 Tsuruomo
Nightlies Frieght Service
#2160 - 2014-05-21 21:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: 777 Tsuruomo
Valterra Craven wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Also, has anyone run the numbers for what the new baseline is for cargo cost?

Aka if you run with no low slots how much value can you stuff before you get ganked?


Granted, this is napkin math since I'm at work.

No lowslots is about 900 mil.

Triple bulkheads turns into about 2.4 billion.


Man,I just realized how many combos there are that could affect this. Lol now we need a tool to determine cargo value based on fit!

1 expander 1 bulkhead, and 1 adaptive nano plating?


Max armor resists on lets say a Anshar with some Deadspace resistance plating (2 adaptive, 1 explosive ~210 M) is an average of 72.15% without boosts. 90k raw armor puts armor EHP 323k

With boosts (travel for webs?) average resists become 75.475% = 422k armor ehp... all without 'sacrificing' cargo space.

even without boosts, it seem is considerably higher (323k armor + 247k hull + 47k shields = 617k ehp)

T2 fit is 62.625% average armor resist so.. 240k+247k + 47k shields which is 534k which is a bit less then 3 bulkheads.

I feel like my math is off somewhere as it seems a bit high, but I've been up 24 hours so hopefully someone a bit more alert then me will verify.