Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think the point with cargo expanders affecting cargo versus velocity was that CCP preferred to make the reward versus tradeoff balanced and was less concerned with protecting autopiloters/AFKers (which CCP has said several times that active should trump passive wherever possible).

The Gallente ships don't come off that well if you try to armour-tank them, though…

I know, was just playing devils advocate :)

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whoa whoa whoa, u have absolutely no idea what ur talking about.

PvP players mine too.
PvP players market trade too.
PvP players mission too.
PvP players use freighters too.
PvP players manufacture too.

no, the game does not depend on carebears for anything. they are no back bone for anything. This is a PvP game. u should look up the definition of PvP and 'carebear'. (or here)

edit
no'2 definition is better



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.........And you guys like to pretend that all you do is pvp.

Pay closer attention to what I was trying to say,
1. This game isnt solely about pvp. Never has, Never should be. I doubt anyone would enjoy the game if it was full of nuthing but gankers, greifers, and blobs. Once again its SANDBOX, make of it as you will.
2. Non pvp'ers and non pvp activities ARE the backbone of this game. For, if no one is building and no one is mining, what do you fight in? Capsules? Likewise, Pvp is also a backbone because they buy a significant amount of the things being built.
3. Mining: Carebear activity
Missioning: Carebear Activity,
Market trading carebear activity. Regardless of where and how you choose to do so. Most of which Is done with alts I assume.
4. Neither you or your alts is mining, missioning, or trading 23hrs a day 7 days a week like carebears in highsec. Or, any more than a few hours a day. If your are its afk. If its afk your a carebear just like the guys in highsec. If you arent, your still a carebear because your mining all day.
5. Your isk alts don't count.
6. Mining in nullsec doesnt make you not a carebear.
7 Missioning in null sec does not make you not a carebear.

8. Major alliances don't count because all of that mining and missioning happens in their space. So all those alts are "secure" so to speak.

Long story short, Carebearing supports eve. No matteer how you try to disguise it. End of discussion.

Edit: Fine, PVE isnt like regular carebearing. It's like PVE Carebearing.

Really? You cite that JF only had one meaningful rig to use (cargohold) and so you give low slots, well they still really only have one meaningful module, that being cargohold since you decided to go and nerf the crap out of their cargo capacity. Requiring 3 T2 cargo expanders to get back to where you were? That is absolutely insane, way to NOT give me any more customization CCP. 2 cargohold expanders doesn't even get you to the base cargo capacity without ANY skills.

For example, 270,000 base cargo capacity for Nomad, pre patch, which is really 324,000 since you are required to have freighter 4 to fly the thing. Now post patch with same minimum skills you only get 158,400, and with 2 T2 expanders you only get to 257,499.

It should NOT take all 3 of my slots I am now given just to GET BACK to pre patch levels, that is not any sort of added customization ability, that is a nerf to make one of the most expensive ships in the game just that little bit more expensive. I get the trading some space for more speed or faster align time or whatever, but this is just stupid.

The freighter stuff looks just fine though, with 2 expanders you basically get back to where you were.

because maths is hard.

Mid slots wouldn't help shield tanks because none have the CPU to fit anything that goes in there anyway. They would need not only mid slots, but also a role bonus to -100% CPU for Invuln Field or something.

Maybe that should be a thing. One mid slot for an invuln on Charons and Fens?

I would almost think just changing all freighters to armor is probably the easiest and cleanest option. Unless the shield roleplayers would then get upset that Charons and Fenrirs were not living up to lore.

Now try hull tanking either. The EHP potential difference between Providence/Obelisk - Charon/Fenrir is not as bad as it sounds.

for the most part, these are much better changes than the original rig proposal, i do have one small issue with the change in regards to the jump freighter cargo space reduction.

with the proposed changes, a fully tanked jump freighter cargo is reduced below the standard hold space of a cargo expanded rorqual. and the rorqual has much higher ability to active tank than a jump freighter with many more fitting options and a lower jump fuel usage. there may need to be some minor tweaks on the jump freighter to make it competitive for use such as a bonus that reduces cargo space penalty on re-enforced bulkheads to keep their utility viable. As it is, with the ore compression changes, the rorqual will already be more advantageous for carrying compressed ore due to the 250k ore hold on top of the 170k of normal storage potential.

To boost tank a marginal amount without having to loose what cargo is left after the re balance....