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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1981 - 2014-05-21 17:27:59 UTC
addelee wrote:

JF's are having their fuel usage increase by 50% in kronos.


This is not correct. The fuel change is currently scheduled for Crius.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

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Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#1982 - 2014-05-21 17:28:27 UTC
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1983 - 2014-05-21 17:28:37 UTC
perhaps now with hull HP rigs making some gal ships hull tanker with hull HP bonuses could be something too look into..
mind you adding some genuine remote hull repping ability might be needed ..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
ELena Starduster
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1984 - 2014-05-21 17:29:01 UTC
Now give us a low slot for Shield resist and we will be happy ;)
Valterra Craven
#1985 - 2014-05-21 17:29:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
addelee wrote:

JF's are having their fuel usage increase by 50% in kronos.


This is not correct. The fuel change is currently scheduled for Crius.



So still no comment on getting a role bonus on t1 freighters to at least to be able to fit a PDU?
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1986 - 2014-05-21 17:30:00 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Well you should care, but you are too up your self to understand that if Eve keeps going this way then the only people left in Eve will be gankers, griefers, scammers, meta-gamers, power gamers


u mean the ppl that actually play this game?

if u want a non-PvP game like starcitizen then why did u join a PvP MMO in the first place? why are u in a game where ganking, greifing, scamming, meta-gaming and power gaming is not just ok, its applauded.



Whoa whoa whoa, Whats all this talk of eve being a pvp mmo? Despite what most people think, eve isn't Unreal tournament Online in space. It is a sandbox game where you can do whatever you want. Non pvp players are the backbone of eve actually and make up a significant amount of subscriptions. Non pvp players, also known by the derogative term care bare(s) are provide for most of the things in eve except directly blowing someone else up.

If this game was solely based on pvp then we would not have no industry, no pi, we'd have nothing actually.

We'd be the online version of HOMEWORLD.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Hiryu Jin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1987 - 2014-05-21 17:30:34 UTC
how about we just leave freighters and jf's the way they are and everyone can save themselves some trouble.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1988 - 2014-05-21 17:31:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


That indeed is a good question.


The answer to this question is "not in Kronos, but possibly at a later date".

Either way that's a discussion for another thread since these ships cannot fit Damage Controls.

**** yeah!
addelee
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1989 - 2014-05-21 17:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: addelee
CCP Fozzie wrote:
addelee wrote:

JF's are having their fuel usage increase by 50% in kronos.


This is not correct. The fuel change is currently scheduled for Crius.


nvm.
Answered somewhere else (about what ships could fit these modules).

I guess the cargo vs fuel conservation is actually a good move. I like it overall :)
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1990 - 2014-05-21 17:31:41 UTC
Perfect. This is an excellent revision to the giant rigslot blunder. Please keep it like this. With rigs, there was too much permanence, where if the situation called for a different setup, rigs had to be destroyed and replaced, whereas in this way we actually have flexibility. Thankyou.
Celly S
Neutin Local LLC
#1991 - 2014-05-21 17:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Celly S
Warr Akini wrote:

Trimming your quote down a bit.

From the business perspective, you're absolutely right - less cargo means more time spent, more "labor cost" (of course equates to zero for many), but using the term exposure indicates a misunderstanding of how ganking actually works. In order to carry out a successful gank of this magnitude, you have to pass a certain threshold of damage and bring that damage to bear generally in one sitting, especially when it comes to jump freighters. So, a 3% drop in your target's EHP means you have to bring the same amount of guys more or less, whereas a 75% boost in your target's EHP means you have to bring nearly double the amount of guys you brought for the same target pre-patch. It doesn't matter how exposed said target is - the only really relevant thing in the end is its EHP on the ganking side.



o/
No worries,
I (because my main lives outside of concord's sphere of influence) figure that any time a ship is in space it's exposed to the possibility of receiving damage and, yes, I understand fairly well how ganking works :) (including concord's mechanics) to a point.
of course, the higher ehp fits will have more survivability, I don't doubt that a bit, hence the multiple trip/higher costs part of the equation.
The instalock nado with arties in sufficient numbers will still alpha a freighter or JF that's not "max tanked" at a positive isks efficiency for a 1.6 b or especially for a 6 to 8 billion isk ship +modules and cargo.
in the end though, (as you say) the EHP will be the deciding factor.

o/
Celly Smunt.

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1992 - 2014-05-21 17:33:17 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


That indeed is a good question.


The answer to this question is "not in Kronos, but possibly at a later date".

Either way that's a discussion for another thread since these ships cannot fit Damage Controls.

**** yeah!


I love your nereus videos, quite awesome in fact.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1993 - 2014-05-21 17:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Dave Stark wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


That indeed is a good question.


The answer to this question is "not in Kronos, but possibly at a later date".

Either way that's a discussion for another thread since these ships cannot fit Damage Controls.


i hope not, damage controls are already a very powerful module, i don't think clicking once per session change in exchange for such a powerful module is much to ask.

nor do i want to see it nerfed because people are lazy.

I'd like them to be passive, if only for the fact that 30 seconds is a long time to wait for one to cycle when I want to pull it off my ship to refit something else.

I'd be happy with halving its cycle time too but that would double its cap use and I just know someone will complain about 1/15 GJ/s cap use instead of 1/30.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1994 - 2014-05-21 17:35:13 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Fozzie have seen my old post.

Hey guys, this one time I mentioned something vaguely similar that nobody read, so here I am to take credit for it.
Dave Stark
#1995 - 2014-05-21 17:36:19 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Love the new update, but one question, when will damage controls become passive mods?


That indeed is a good question.


The answer to this question is "not in Kronos, but possibly at a later date".

Either way that's a discussion for another thread since these ships cannot fit Damage Controls.


i hope not, damage controls are already a very powerful module, i don't think clicking once per session change in exchange for such a powerful module is much to ask.

nor do i want to see it nerfed because people are lazy.

I'd like them to be passive, if only for the fact that 30 seconds is a long time to wait for one to cycle when I want to pull it off my ship to refit something else.

i'd be fine with lowering the cycle time.

i just honestly think that you should have to press a button to get a bonus as powerful as the damage control's is.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#1996 - 2014-05-21 17:39:14 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
addelee wrote:

JF's are having their fuel usage increase by 50% in kronos.


This is not correct. The fuel change is currently scheduled for Crius.



So still no comment on getting a role bonus on t1 freighters to at least to be able to fit a PDU?


let the PDU go. it'll never balance against resistance and layered plating.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Warr Akini
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1997 - 2014-05-21 17:39:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Warr Akini
CCP Fozzie wrote:
addelee wrote:

JF's are having their fuel usage increase by 50% in kronos.


This is not correct. The fuel change is currently scheduled for Crius.


I see you picking up low-hanging fruit, and I'm not usually a big fan of F5'ing forums at 2:30am, so can I get you to comment that you've seen the EHP/cargo tables and/or can comment on those implications re: the new EHP tradeoff, whether that's now or later?

EDIT: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4622776#post4622776 this post
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1998 - 2014-05-21 17:40:39 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
I love your nereus videos, quite awesome in fact.

Thanks! Big smile
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1999 - 2014-05-21 17:41:41 UTC
Celly S wrote:
The instalock nado with arties in sufficient numbers will still alpha a freighter or JF that's not "max tanked" at a positive isks efficiency for a 1.6 b or especially for a 6 to 8 billion isk ship +modules and cargo.
ibn the end though, the EHP will be the deciding factor.


What does ISK efficiency have to do with ganking?
Captain Finklestein
Doomheim
#2000 - 2014-05-21 17:43:59 UTC
This is some weird ****.

The Charon and Fenrir can shield tank or hull tank.
The Obelisk and Providence can only hull tank.

The shields should not be strong enough to shield tank. They should be strong enough to make logi support feasible, but no larger. This is what should set apart the races; the ability to logi with shield vs. armour.



It's just more financially viable for me.