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Band-aid for the "40% just levels his raven": highsec issue supers

First post
Author
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-05-30 15:24:42 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
You're talking about trying to farm the whales (people that spend ridiculous amounts of real cash on a single video game). Granted this typically applies to F2P games but in any event trying to farm whales is an appalling practice and the fact that some devs even have a term for it just goes to show how much trouble video games in general are in if devs are going to be so cynical that they'll stoop to any low and release any garbage as long as you open your wallet and then they'll try to reduce the backlash. The last thing EVE needs is the backlash that will be caused by CCP deliberately trying to milk all the money they can out of players who are going to contribute nothing to EVE and then quit.

At first this idea isn't targeted to whales. Real titans are much more likely whale-hook, since it offers the illusion of power and becoming a member of the "elite". And buying a titan pilot + open market titan from PLEX-ed money is such a good idea in EVE! Yet I've seen no backlash from "I've wasted $5000 to buy a pixel ship and pilot and it was destroyed in the first day!" The idea is about openly useless, PvP-incapable, system-locked ships that serve no other purpose than a rare WoW-mount. I can't see how could anyone feel scammed by it.

Yes, I believe - like most real titan owners - the ones who completed this "epic mount quest" will quit. But only do so because in their mind they won the game. They won't be bitter or sad, simply say "OK, I did it, I'll be back when they add a more epic reward".


You keep repeating the same thing over and over again -" everyone knows it's bad and aimed to extort real money, but, I like it". If you weren't so stubborn you'd realize nobody else likes it, because it's so extremely bad. Either refine your idea or drop it. Repeating yourself won't help you. Don't act like like a moron, you like to label everyone around.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2014-05-30 16:39:33 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
The idea is about openly useless, PvP-incapable, system-locked ships that serve no other purpose than a rare WoW-mount. I can't see how could anyone feel scammed by it.




Please read what you just wrote.

People could feel scammed by it BECAUSE it is an openbly useless, PVP incapable, system locked ship that serves no purpose. There is literally no reason for anyone to ever buy one. If they want status symbols, then tournament ships, or hell, regular titans would do it better.

Dude, if you're so desperate for a mining titan, go buy an avatar. You can afford it. Roll
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2014-05-30 16:55:11 UTC
I also have to mention, that a very rough glance at the numbers looks like these ships might actually pay for themselves within a year or so, assuming an average of 4 hours mining per day. That would actually result in fairly large fleets of these things hanging around mining in high-sec.

Now, if these ships stayed in space when logged off, were forbidden from ever existing in a NPC corp, and could not drop corp to avoid war-decs, then I might actually find these amusing.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#84 - 2014-05-30 19:11:22 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
If they want status symbols, then tournament ships, or hell, regular titans would do it better.

I think even the dumbest carebear is capable of figuring out that these things wouldn't last for more than an hour in his possession. The point of the suggestion is a status symbol that they can keep.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2014-05-30 19:23:59 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
If they want status symbols, then tournament ships, or hell, regular titans would do it better.

I think even the dumbest carebear is capable of figuring out that these things wouldn't last for more than an hour in his possession. The point of the suggestion is a status symbol that they can keep.


So the TL;DR is you want a titan?

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 

Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2014-05-30 19:36:38 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
If they want status symbols, then tournament ships, or hell, regular titans would do it better.

I think even the dumbest carebear is capable of figuring out that these things wouldn't last for more than an hour in his possession. The point of the suggestion is a status symbol that they can keep.


If they are going to quit after acquiring one, how does that matter? Besides, sub-caps are absolutely safe when they are docked.

Any even somewhat realistic mechanic which would ever allow a cap in high sec (besides freighters and residual caps) would have to require it to be put at risk. That's why the existing high sec caps have extremely limiting conditions put upon them, which upon violation results in them immediately being moved to low sec. Using them for POS bashing, undocking them during war decs, using them for any advantage over other players : They are moved to low sec.

I don't see CCP deciding to suddenly add an even larger ship into high sec, when they prohibited far less powerful ships years ago to prevent exactly what you are suggesting.
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#87 - 2014-05-30 19:51:30 UTC
Why not just allow users to buy gold stars that appear next to their name in local? What would they do? Nothing.
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-05-30 19:55:36 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
If they want status symbols, then tournament ships, or hell, regular titans would do it better.

I think even the dumbest carebear is capable of figuring out that these things wouldn't last for more than an hour in his possession. The point of the suggestion is a status symbol that they can keep.


Given the backlash, the status would be of an idiot. Also, considering they would figure out the absurdity of such titan themselves, they would also figure out the true symbol of what it is.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool

Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#89 - 2014-05-30 20:37:24 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
If they want status symbols, then tournament ships, or hell, regular titans would do it better.

I think even the dumbest carebear is capable of figuring out that these things wouldn't last for more than an hour in his possession. The point of the suggestion is a status symbol that they can keep.


Well, the thing is, if you include the part were you quit after acquiring your titan, this already exists.

You can buy a titan, using Chribba as an intermediary to avoid getting scammed. Then you just jump to a marginally safe system with your cyno alt and log off.

Now you have your status symbol and as long as you don't log on again, you can keep it. Also since you were going to quit anyway, sacrificing that character on the altar of idiocy wouldn't bother you, right?

Problem solved, you can close the thread now. Lol
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2014-05-30 22:13:47 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
If they want status symbols, then tournament ships, or hell, regular titans would do it better.

I think even the dumbest carebear is capable of figuring out that these things wouldn't last for more than an hour in his possession. The point of the suggestion is a status symbol that they can keep.



But it isn't a status symbol, it is literally a giant space-monument to their stupidity. it does nothing. It serves no purpose. It's only reason for existing is to milk more subscription money from people.

That is BAD. Any other form of status symbol actually serves a purpose. Serving a purpose is GOOD. Hell, even a revenant is more use than your highsec mining titan.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-05-30 23:00:37 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
How long do you think you'll survive in a 150b isk Mack?

You have any idea how much EHP a titan has? Takes a few catas to chew it down. Also, it's closer to 80B unless you officer fit it. Real titans are expensive because it's hard to build them, while these could be built by anyone.


Titans were 105 billion for the hull alone as of 6 months ago. Any titan without 6+ bill in modules on it doesn't deserve to live. And titan characters can run another 25+ billion.

Sure, it would be ungankable. But do you really think- You know what, this idea is just so bad I'm not going to explain it.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#92 - 2014-05-30 23:06:32 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.


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ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#93 - 2014-05-31 05:01:09 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

But it isn't a status symbol, it is literally a giant space-monument to their stupidity. it does nothing. It serves no purpose. It's only reason for existing is to milk more subscription money from people.

That is BAD. Any other form of status symbol actually serves a purpose. Serving a purpose is GOOD. Hell, even a revenant is more use than your highsec mining titan.

Again. Other MMOs (like the one with 20x more subscribers than EVE) are full of completely useless status symbols. The mining titan can at least mine. The missioning supercarrier can at least complete a mission faster than any subcap. They still don't worth their price due to their limitations (they can't jump out, so you can only mine local belts that will go empty fast or mission when you get one in your system). On the other hand a WoW mount that you have to grind for months give absolutely no benefit over the basic mount. Yet people farm it like crazy and then idle in crowded areas to show off.

Are they stupid? Yes they are. But they are clearly having fun, because they are grinding for their next mount. The only reason why mining titan owners would quit is that they have the most epic mount in EVE and can't upgrade. CCP could keep them even longer by giving them further upgrades, making their mining titan even more epic. Like for 100B worth of materials + old titan you get one in a different color and +5% mining yield, +10% EHP, +10% damage.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2014-05-31 05:29:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Danika Princip wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

And then wardecdced by anyone, and then killed by anyone...


No wonder you guys die easily to Lemmings. Knowing about highsec mechanics isn't your strength. Hint: you can't wardec the NPC corp. Hopefully the pilot isn't a complete idiot to be in any other corp.



Wait, so you'd allow these things to be built by NPC corps? Why?

Hell, what's the point of them anyway? You yourself state they should have no use at all...


Because it would mean a new power could rise up in highsec and take on the one small group of people that controls all of dullsec ... and that my friends is why they will fight like crazy to make sure it never happens.

Of course one thing I disagree on is that the caps built in highsec should be gimped ones. NPC corpers should be allowed to build anything build-able and take the fight to null if they want to. 5 years ago this would have been a stupid idea but these days it's one of the few things that might save nullsec from itself.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-05-31 05:44:10 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

And then wardecdced by anyone, and then killed by anyone...


No wonder you guys die easily to Lemmings. Knowing about highsec mechanics isn't your strength. Hint: you can't wardec the NPC corp. Hopefully the pilot isn't a complete idiot to be in any other corp.



Wait, so you'd allow these things to be built by NPC corps? Why?

Hell, what's the point of them anyway? You yourself state they should have no use at all...


Because it would mean a new power could rise up in highsec and take on the one small group of people that controls all of dullsec ... and that my friends is why they will fight like crazy to make sure it never happens.

Of course one thing I disagree on is that the caps built in highsec should be gimped ones. NPC corpers should be allowed to build anything build-able and take the fight to null if they want to. 5 years ago this would have been a stupid idea but these days it's one of the few things that might save nullsec from itself.


In case you're not trolling: such titan is aimed at people not interested in things like meta or nullsec, so there would be no rise to power. As Gevlon says, it's sole purpose is to milk them for real money before they quit. And please note, there are other players than null ones trashing the idea.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool

Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2014-05-31 05:49:30 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

But it isn't a status symbol, it is literally a giant space-monument to their stupidity. it does nothing. It serves no purpose. It's only reason for existing is to milk more subscription money from people.

That is BAD. Any other form of status symbol actually serves a purpose. Serving a purpose is GOOD. Hell, even a revenant is more use than your highsec mining titan.

Again. Other MMOs (like the one with 20x more subscribers than EVE) are full of completely useless status symbols. The mining titan can at least mine. The missioning supercarrier can at least complete a mission faster than any subcap. They still don't worth their price due to their limitations (they can't jump out, so you can only mine local belts that will go empty fast or mission when you get one in your system). On the other hand a WoW mount that you have to grind for months give absolutely no benefit over the basic mount. Yet people farm it like crazy and then idle in crowded areas to show off.

Are they stupid? Yes they are. But they are clearly having fun, because they are grinding for their next mount. The only reason why mining titan owners would quit is that they have the most epic mount in EVE and can't upgrade. CCP could keep them even longer by giving them further upgrades, making their mining titan even more epic. Like for 100B worth of materials + old titan you get one in a different color and +5% mining yield, +10% EHP, +10% damage.


The difference between a wow mount and such titan has been explained to you. Therefore why are you repeating yourself again? A mount is a collectible which can be shown off. A titan is not a collectible and is a symbol of stupidity, which both the owner and people around know. To add insult to injury, the titan is absurdly more resource demanding than a mount.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#97 - 2014-05-31 20:27:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

But it isn't a status symbol, it is literally a giant space-monument to their stupidity. it does nothing. It serves no purpose. It's only reason for existing is to milk more subscription money from people.

That is BAD. Any other form of status symbol actually serves a purpose. Serving a purpose is GOOD. Hell, even a revenant is more use than your highsec mining titan.

Again. Other MMOs (like the one with 20x more subscribers than EVE) are full of completely useless status symbols. The mining titan can at least mine. The missioning supercarrier can at least complete a mission faster than any subcap. They still don't worth their price due to their limitations (they can't jump out, so you can only mine local belts that will go empty fast or mission when you get one in your system). On the other hand a WoW mount that you have to grind for months give absolutely no benefit over the basic mount. Yet people farm it like crazy and then idle in crowded areas to show off.

Are they stupid? Yes they are. But they are clearly having fun, because they are grinding for their next mount. The only reason why mining titan owners would quit is that they have the most epic mount in EVE and can't upgrade. CCP could keep them even longer by giving them further upgrades, making their mining titan even more epic. Like for 100B worth of materials + old titan you get one in a different color and +5% mining yield, +10% EHP, +10% damage.


Does the WoW mount permanently gimp the character at PVP?
Does the WoW mount permanently gimp the character at PVE?
Does the WoW mount encumber movement?
Does the WoW mount prevent access to many basic game features for that character?
Does the WoW mount openly try to make people stop playing the game?
Does the WoW mount ever, at any point, prevent, hinder, or disable any part of any gameplay function?
Does the WoW mount bestow the immovable status of "idiot" among the player population at large?

Why are you comparing two wholly unrelated things?

Oh

Ohhhhhhhhhhh

Because you don't understand people or the concept of fun, and ergo can't understand why the WoW mount is considered a fun thing to have, and can't see the difference between a vanity item (like, say, anything in the NeX store) and an openly, self admittedly, player hostile, anti-fun game mechanic. Other people don't live in your world where the only meaning to video games is making a pretend number of money get larger is the only aim - most people play to have fun. Mounts are just vanity items. No, anyone buying a vanity item isn't stupid.

Vanity items are already in EvE. Your idea is a thinly veiled attempt to get an ungankable ship into the game, so you can prance about and blog how "the Goons can't gank me!" even though we don't try, because feeding an attention whore is a net-loss in any scenario.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#98 - 2014-05-31 21:13:16 UTC
So he's floundering around in trying to pin the reasoning on this idea as "It will help CCP" (the pretence that every bad idea has underpinning it), but I wanted to share some of Gevlon's own words with you.

See if you can read these, the OP, and determine where his motivation for this idea really is:

Gevlon Goblin wrote:
How to solve this puzzle then? How to "pwn" without actually doing it?

There is a ship which is "pwning" in itself. One that makes or breaks the epic 1000+ battles. One that blaps (oneshots) other ships. One whose demise make it into the news and make the the ones killed it heroes. The titan.

So, to prove that the best way to "win" EVE is being a ruthless, a-social businessman is to pilot a titan. Of course it will need me to join a nullsec alliance. I will have months to find one. Also by "pwning" in a titan, I'm not pointlessly ganking random people which I despise, but helping an alliance that is more goblinish (even if just marginally) than the one we go to war with.


As we all know, his dreams of ever joining a nullsec alliance have pretty much been ruled impossible, so he's left asking CCP to add Titans to highsec for him Cry

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#99 - 2014-06-01 06:14:22 UTC
Sentamon wrote:

Because it would mean a new power could rise up in highsec and take on the one small group of people that controls all of dullsec ... and that my friends is why they will fight like crazy to make sure it never happens.

Obviously not, but still, many would feel like they are working for some powerful ship. These players would quit disappointed, but hey, he was warned that these ships are PvP incapable so it's just them being dumb.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2014-06-01 06:46:40 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Sentamon wrote:

Because it would mean a new power could rise up in highsec and take on the one small group of people that controls all of dullsec ... and that my friends is why they will fight like crazy to make sure it never happens.

Obviously not, but still, many would feel like they are working for some powerful ship. These players would quit disappointed, but hey, he was warned that these ships are PvP incapable so it's just them being dumb.


And you wonder why nobody likes your idea?

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool