Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So this would be like a space wang?

da fuq?
u cant even skill into a golem in a month, so why refer to statistics about players leaving in a month?

i also don't feel a big loss when players leave because they think they've reached the 'end game'.

dnt be so silly.

I *love* the idea of being able to engage in a big PvE building project.

In many ways it would be like MMO housing. A place to decorate and show off.

The titan as described by Gevlon would be too useful in that it chew up that systems roid belts far too easily.

Why not change the project into creating a "micro-worm hole".

The micro worm hole would be password protected (i.e. you have to synchronize your drive to match) and It would generate a micro-sized system behind it. This system would have a few token resources and you could build your own station! in it.

Yes lets give a bunch of NPC corp guys a huge game-breaking ship instead of encouraging people to create their own content. Seriously, I expected more from even you Gevlon.

That isn't actually an answer. Taking sov has benefits, building a veldatar really doesn't. There's no point to it, and no reason for anyone besides maybe chribba to actually bother.

So I'll ask it again, what's the point of these things, and why would anyone in highsec bother?

About the only use I can actually see for these is people building them in wormholes, assuming they'd have the same weapon options as their regular counterparts. Last time I heard though, the wormhole guys really, really don't want supers forced on them.

I have to admit, Gevlon, I'm impressed.

You've managed to come up with an even stupider way to be wrong here than you habitually do on your blog.

Look, you openly admit one of your biggest weaknesses is understanding people, and their motivations. So if you don't understand what motivates people (and you blatantly don't), why are you trying to come up with ways to motivate them? You decry 'fun' as a waste of time, as something that can't be measured, and half the time, as something that doesn't really exist. But that's what people are looking for in a game: interesting content that gives fulfilling rewards, aka, fun.

How long do you think having a gimp supercapital is going to be 'fun' for someone? How long do you think it's going to take people to realize 'wow, I'm putting in all this time to get... a ship with its heart and soul ripped out'? It's a shell game, and you know it. You even admit it: the supercapital serves no purpose, and isn't actually an improvement in performance or efficiency over using a battleship hull. So, really, how stupid do you think the people you're trying to retain with this plan actually are?

Congratulations, Gevlon, for coming up with a proposal to not only try to lock people into content they're already not enjoying (if they were, they wouldn't quit), but insulting them while you do it. Truly, you are the highsec PvE'er's friend and salvation.

So as the feedback thus far on this thread is just limited to people from those areas that will always whine "TomAYto" whenever Gevlon says "TomAto" - and not surprisingly they have just poured hate onto the idea (as they will with any idea he has).

What would have been surprising is if the haters had offered some kind of sensible alternative to the problem that the Goblin had highlighted. But then 'haters gotta hate'.

So - I'm a newb. Extreme newb in fact. And I'm one of those who 'prefer to play solo' (at least until the learning curve has flattened out) in part to avoid the rich stream of scorn that permeates this game from much of the cogniscenti playerbase.

My observation is that there are big barriers to joining a corp for a new player (and being 'social)':
a) many of the ones recruiting are small and hopeless - there is no real benefit in joining, not even social interaction really
b) many of the corps that would be useful to join - you can't (ie SP min requirements etc and full disclosure of all your accounts APIs, and then no guarantees)
c) many corps seem to offer recruitment 'ins' that are just opportunities to scam or grief newbies
d) many corps have heavy expectations that new recruits will act like grunts at a bootcamp ("you will be expected to take part in this/that/the other corp training programmes etc") - who the hell wants a bootcamp
e) many corps espouse a philosophy or approach to this game that seems to be rooted in unpleasant approaches (funnily, like a lot of the corps that players posting here belong to)

And so - solo play - in a game (let me repeat that........ "A GAME") is really a more attractive option to seek some return on my subscription. After all - isn't the essence of a sandbox game that it allows the player(s) to decide what they want to do rather than the themepark approach of most other MMOs.

However, after 4-6 weeks of fun - I'm finding that solo play is stifled and the options are starting to seem a bit limited as a solo player. I thought to myself this morning "Was I dumb to sign up on the six months offer?".

In short, I'm part of the 40% Gevlon is talking about - I'm not sure if a Titan would incentivise me to stay - but I do think he is right that there needs to be some thinking by CCP about retention. For all those smug "I've been playing for 5 years and I my sh*t doesn't stink" folks - I'm happy for you. But - long time players leave the game - the logical conclusion if there is no renewal is that CCP will pull the plug. The new subscribers are the cash-flow for the business that provides your universe.

So - sure, hate on Gevlon - but he is doing what you seem unable to do - he's thinking creatively. Can you?

"I have little patience for scientists who take a board of wood, look for the thinnest part, and drill a great number of holes when the drilling is easy." -- Albert Einstein

1 - welcome to EVE Online.
2 - Welcome to the EVE Online forums.
3 - My sympathies in advance.
4 - Some people are commenting on Gevlon's ideas, not because they lack their own, but because they have something to say about them - good or bad.
5 - Mistaking feedback on an idea as baseless criticism for the person is a bad idea.
6 - You yourself are critical over Gevlon's suggestion: "I'm not sure if a Titan would incentivise me to stay".


That said: Yes, player retention in EVE Online is going to be very difficult. The easy way it to dumb EVE down, which is not what current players want - if they did, they would be playing other MMOs instead of EVE Online.



My response:
A - often times very true. But it is a start.
B - Because of the Nature of EVE Online, minimum SP, APIs, etc are required. Trust me, you stick around, you will learn why and hopefully not the hard way
C - Very true, so don't join them if they are asking you to give them assets up front.
D - Bootcamp is useful because it ensures the 'recruit' knows how to work with the corp/alliance as a whole - ESPECIALLY in combat operations.
E - You mean like Gevlon's mining ganking?

(Really, the 'draft' system that likes to eat entire posts AFTER you preview it and make sure everything's good? Not one of my favorite things.)

a) How would you define hopeless? Granted, it's not like every start up corp is going to be the next big thing (like BNI was/is for instance) but what is your measure of success? Ownership of space? Organized group activities? Space fame? Honestly the social interaction is the benefit. Being able to shoot the breeze or go out and have fun with other players has it's own value. If you aren't after those things that's OK, but you cannot argue that they aren't a benefit.

b) Yes, these things do exist, but it depends on what your looking for. Some corps only partake in certain activities (covops roams for example) and thus want members to be able to participate. Would you really be having fun if all your corp did was troll around lowsec in recons and blackops when you couldn't fly them? I doubt it. Others just don't want to "train" newbies right out the gate. That's their prerogative. But there are groups (E-uni, RvB, BNI) that are very newbie friendly if that's what your looking for.

c) This is true. You have to be careful about this kind of thing, but generally speaking if a corp is asking for assets or ISK it's probably bad.

d) This sucks, I agree with you. Now granted, learning to play with your corp or partake in their activities properly is rather important. Joining a corp that does a lot of frigate PvP but refusing to learn battle-communication etiquette for instance would be both unfair to them and a failure on your part. A big part of EvE is definitely being open to learning things. But "boot camps" are something else. There are probably many corps with these kind of rather strict regulations, but I'm sure you can just as easily find a laid back corp that just likes having fun if you want to. That's the thing about EvE, you don't really have to do anything you don't want to. If you join a corp and you find that they're really restricting what you can do or forcing you into a particular system you don't like it's perfectly fine to say "I don't think this corps for me" and go looking for one more suited to your interests.

e) Again, this comes down to your interests. For instance, I would never fly with New Order because I'm simply not a fan of high-sec ganking. It doesn't suit me, I would much rather be tooling around low-sec looking for a pulse-pounding fight. It's all up to you. If you don't like a corps attitude or atmosphere or branch of activities, look for another that suits your interests better. And if after awhile you just can't find one, consider making your own. It'll probably be hard work and come with lots of troubles, but it's also an opportunity to bring something new to the community.

It's true that there are barriers to entry for corps, but I think these barriers fall just as much on you as the corps themselves. How much research are you willing to do? How willing are you to try out different corps and activities to find something you like? How much effort are you willing to put in to creating your positive playing experience? Answer these questions honestly, and then find something the suits your needs. The name of the game is EvE, but initiative is a close second. And if at the end of the day you just don't feel like the game is for you, no one can blame you. EvE is a niche game and if you gave it a real honest try and didn't like it, no one can fault you for that.

Best of luck finding your place, and fly safe.