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Tackling the problem of null-sec ratting bots.

First post
Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#221 - 2014-05-17 18:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Xavier Higdon wrote:
Stuff

If a police force (in this case CCP) has only limited resources to prevent crime (botting), it polices where those resources can be best utilised for maximum results, usually in the areas where most of the crime is commited (in this case highsec). Low crime areas get only a token policing effort, as opposed to high crime areas which get a major policing effort.

If botters move to lowsec, nullsec and wormholes, because CCP have driven them out of highsec, then CCP will follow them to those areas.

Although as Mr Epeen rightfully points out, CCPs bot detection routines don't, or shouldn't, discriminate based on location, all bots must die.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Dave Stark
#222 - 2014-05-17 18:17:51 UTC
Sarcasim wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Sarcasim wrote:
If you dont care where the main botter lives then why imply its hi-sec people doing the botting?


because if you spend all your time in high sec botting, you live in high sec.

So I have several alts in null...some in low and a couple in hi-sec. Where do I live? What does that make me? A null bear? A care bear?? A pirate maybe?

No.......it makes me an Eve player.

However; you kids please do carry on with your childish finger pointing and blame game and lame attempts at demonizing a area of space because they dont play the game the way YOU think they should.

where do you spend most of your man hours?
that is where you live, as you spend most of your man hours there.

where you live has no affiliation with being a "pirate" or a "carebear" as those are activities not locations.

everyone here is an eve player, you know... this being the eve forums and all.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2014-05-17 18:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Mr Epeen wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


The facts show the most boting occurs in highsec so focusing the most anti-boting resources in highsec makes sense to have the best effect combating boting.


I'll say it again. Really slowly for you this time.

It....doesn't...matter...where...they...are.

It's the same program. Effective detection algorithms will find the botters wherever they are. Period.

Stop trying to justify leaving your null bots alone. They all need to go.


Mr Epeen Cool



Hahahahahah the irony meter is going off again, you're calling me slow when you can't pick out that being as efficient as possible against bots =! ignoring nullsec bots.

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admiral root
Red Galaxy
#224 - 2014-05-17 18:22:34 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
because 6 titans being impounded by CCP says that some members of those cartels ARE making use of RMT or Botting


When you start using fictional cartels in your argument you lose any credibility you may have previously had. As for the titans you mentioned, no-one has claimed that nullsec is 100% free of cheats.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#225 - 2014-05-17 18:23:29 UTC
Sarcasim wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sarcasim wrote:


I have been accepted into BNI 7o please feel free to look for me there. I am moving my stuff around to avoid the wardecs. Once home I will accept my invintation.


Congrats, I suppose?




Your the one that seemed to think it was important as to where this toon resided.


No, merely that shitposting on such a level is what I have come to expect from Scope NPC alts.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#226 - 2014-05-17 18:23:30 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Sarcasim wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Sarcasim wrote:
If you dont care where the main botter lives then why imply its hi-sec people doing the botting?


because if you spend all your time in high sec botting, you live in high sec.

So I have several alts in null...some in low and a couple in hi-sec. Where do I live? What does that make me? A null bear? A care bear?? A pirate maybe?

No.......it makes me an Eve player.

However; you kids please do carry on with your childish finger pointing and blame game and lame attempts at demonizing a area of space because they dont play the game the way YOU think they should.

where do you spend most of your man hours?
that is where you live, as you spend most of your man hours there.

where you live has no affiliation with being a "pirate" or a "carebear" as those are activities not locations.

everyone here is an eve player, you know... this being the eve forums and all.

Exactly, so why is botting not an Eve problem instead of these idiots trying to make it out as an evil hi-sec thing?

The people botting could only live in null and run their bot in hi-sec.

Every mammal knows not to shiat in the same place you eat.....even though I imagine some people here would and do eat on the shitter.
Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#227 - 2014-05-17 18:25:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sarcasim wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sarcasim wrote:


I have been accepted into BNI 7o please feel free to look for me there. I am moving my stuff around to avoid the wardecs. Once home I will accept my invintation.


Congrats, I suppose?




Your the one that seemed to think it was important as to where this toon resided.


No, merely that shitposting on such a level is what I have come to expect from Scope NPC alts.

Looking at some of your past post I can say with great certainty you and your fellow forum troll buddies are expert in the subject matter of shitposting.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#228 - 2014-05-17 18:26:47 UTC
Sarcasim wrote:
Exactly, so why is botting not an Eve problem instead of these idiots trying to make it out as an evil hi-sec thing?


Us "idiots" are trying to make out that the vast majority of bots are in highsec. Guess what? They are. My turn - why do you need to resort to insults? Is it that difficult to comport yourself with a little class?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#229 - 2014-05-17 18:27:15 UTC
La Nariz wrote:


Answer my question does CCP have infinite resources?

E: The rest of that post is recycled defecated material answer the only question that matters.

E2: Hint its a yes or no question.


Hint: I answered your question.

Hint2: It was answered in with a yes or no.

Hint3: Do I have to start double spacing everything for you again?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#230 - 2014-05-17 18:27:43 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Sarcasim wrote:
Exactly, so why is botting not an Eve problem instead of these idiots trying to make it out as an evil hi-sec thing?


Us "idiots" are trying to make out that the vast majority of bots are in highsec. Guess what? They are. My turn - why do you need to resort to insults? Is it that difficult to comport yourself with a little class?


See above, that he's in Scope. So yeah, it is that difficult.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Prince Kobol
#231 - 2014-05-17 18:32:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Mr Epeen wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


The facts show the most boting occurs in highsec so focusing the most anti-boting resources in highsec makes sense to have the best effect combating boting.


I'll say it again. Really slowly for you this time.

It....doesn't...matter...where...they...are.

It's the same program. Effective detection algorithms will find the botters wherever they are. Period.

Stop trying to justify leaving your null bots alone. They all need to go.


Mr Epeen Cool



Yes and No.

There are a few bots which are designed for the sole purpose for mining and mission running. They are not your all in one bot.

I would wager that most of these bots which are designed specifically for mining and mission running are for the most part being used in HS.
Dave Stark
#232 - 2014-05-17 18:32:36 UTC
Sarcasim wrote:
Exactly, so why is botting not an Eve problem instead of these idiots trying to make it out as an evil hi-sec thing?

The people botting could only live in null and run their bot in hi-sec.

Every mammal knows not to shiat in the same place you eat.....even though I imagine some people here would and do eat on the shitter.


nobody said botting wasn't an eve problem. even if it was a high sec only problem, it would still be an eve problem because it's still within eve.

i think you might be confusing the afk gameplay inherent with eve's pve system confused with botting.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#233 - 2014-05-17 18:34:34 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
because 6 titans being impounded by CCP says that some members of those cartels ARE making use of RMT or Botting


When you start using fictional cartels in your argument you lose any credibility you may have previously had. As for the titans you mentioned, no-one has claimed that nullsec is 100% free of cheats.


Not all titans are in null sec.

I know of a few low sec groups that have them and there are many many privately owned titans.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#234 - 2014-05-17 18:36:32 UTC
I didn't even think of that - good point.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#235 - 2014-05-17 18:37:35 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Xavier Higdon wrote:
Stuff

If a police force (in this case CCP) has only limited resources to prevent crime (botting), it polices where those resources can be best utilised for maximum results, usually in the areas where most of the crime is commited (in this case highsec). Low crime areas get only a token policing effort, as opposed to high crime areas which get a major policing effort.

If botters move to lowsec, nullsec and wormholes, because CCP have driven them out of highsec, then CCP will follow them to those areas.

Although as Mr Epeen rightfully points out, CCPs bot detection routines don't, or shouldn't, discriminate based on location, all bots must die.


And as Mr Epeen rightfully points out, forcing that detection routine to focus its processing power on high sec to the exclusion of other areas of New Eden is not an efficient or intelligent means of combating bots. He's the only other person in this thread that has argued botting should be fought everywhere, not mostly in high sec and a little in null sec, not mostly in null sec and little in low sec, not only in high sec or only in null sec or only in wormholes or any other combination of enforcement policies that would lead to more bots being missed, but simply that botting should be combated all across EvE.

As for your police force analogy, it's the same thing as what La Nariz is saying: "It's worse in high sec so get rid of the bots there first!" By ensuring that one part of space is being "policed" more heavily, you would ensure that botting never dies, since the botters would just move. If CCP fights bots everywhere in an equal manner(which I'm sure they do, though La Nariz would like them to stop doing that and to switch to a cat and mouse game where the cat is caged in high sec and the mouse can run free and eat all the cheese it wants in null sec) then there is no place for them to run to. You're arguing that, since we're comparing this to police action, we should watch the front door of a criminal's house because that's the door he uses most often, and the back door can be watched once we're sure he's not coming out the front. I'm more a fan of watching both doors at the same time, all the time.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#236 - 2014-05-17 18:39:31 UTC
Xavier Higdon wrote:
By ensuring that one part of space is being "policed" more heavily, you would ensure that botting never dies,


News flash: scumbags will *always* find a way to bot in any game. All devs can ever do is minimise the number of them.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#237 - 2014-05-17 18:41:07 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Xavier Higdon wrote:
By ensuring that one part of space is being "policed" more heavily, you would ensure that botting never dies,


News flash: scumbags will *always* find a way to bot in any game. All devs can ever do is minimise the number of them.


And the best way to minimize the number of bots is to target all bots, not to spend most of your time looking at Spot A in the hopes that a bot will walk past, right?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#238 - 2014-05-17 18:45:05 UTC
Xavier Higdon wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Xavier Higdon wrote:
By ensuring that one part of space is being "policed" more heavily, you would ensure that botting never dies,


News flash: scumbags will *always* find a way to bot in any game. All devs can ever do is minimise the number of them.


And the best way to minimize the number of bots is to target all bots, not to spend most of your time looking at Spot A in the hopes that a bot will walk past, right?


You go after them all but you focus on the hotspots as that will get you more bans.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#239 - 2014-05-17 18:45:23 UTC
Xavier Higdon wrote:
And the best way to minimize the number of bots is to target all bots, not to spend most of your time looking at Spot A in the hopes that a bot will walk past, right?


I'm not qualified to answer that. I'm not an IT expert and have absolutely no idea at all what's involved in detecting bots. If there's a difference in how the bot software operates in different areas of space to the point where detection methods also differ, and if the amount of resources CCP can throw at the problem necessitate priotising, then it does indeed make sense to focus on the huge blob of bots in highsec first.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#240 - 2014-05-17 18:48:34 UTC
Xavier Higdon wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

Why doesn't targeting the area with the most botting make sense? 85% of botting in highsec.


I still can't find where that number comes from, please provide a link so we can clear this up.


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