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[Kronos] More lowsec K-K wormholes

First post First post
Author
Lei Merdeau
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#101 - 2014-05-14 10:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lei Merdeau
Won't this make Deep Sov Null even safer by reducing the chance of WH barbarians ?
Anthar Thebess
#102 - 2014-05-14 10:36:30 UTC
Lei Merdeau wrote:
Won't this make Deep Sov Null even safer by reducing the chance of WH barbarians ?

My idea is to make NPC Nullspace having more connections to NULL space , without differencing if this is other NPC Null Space or Sov nullspace.

So this will mean more connections to those deep sov space pockets, or somewhere near them.

We are talking about WH that are opening from NPC Null Space , so K162 can be in SOV Space.

If i could decide about the point of exit i could tie to a :
- number of rats killed in specific constellation
(and/or)
- number of Jumps Made in Specific constellation

This way those new WH will create content.

On the other side all Wormholes should have different Total Mass +-20% of this way there will be no more safe way to close a unwanted wormhole using few capitals.
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#103 - 2014-05-14 10:46:03 UTC
Im confused, you guys want to push more industry/mining into lowsec but want more roaming pvp gangs to wipe these miners out? you guys need to make up your minds on what you want.
Anthar Thebess
#104 - 2014-05-14 10:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
One thing does not exclude the other.
Check the amount of space held by renting empires.

Remember that Nullsec is not intended to be safe place, but if you do something in proper way nullsec still will be safer than a higsec.

Nullsec mostly about creating PVP content , and i hope that CCP dont plant to change that.
BugraT WarheaD
#105 - 2014-05-14 10:53:46 UTC
nice !
Lei Merdeau
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#106 - 2014-05-14 10:54:37 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Check the amount of space held by renting empires.


Rental space is never Deep Sov Null, that is too valuable to rent.
Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2014-05-14 11:33:44 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Anthar Thebess wrote:
Can we have more Null <-> Null wormholes in NPC null space that is not affected by a sov upgrades.
Can those wormholes have small one time maximum mass but high total mass and /or regeneration capabilities?

This will also increase the "content"


Interesting.


Isn't that called a cyno?
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#108 - 2014-05-14 11:42:56 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Anthar Thebess wrote:
Can we have more Null <-> Null wormholes in NPC null space that is not affected by a sov upgrades.
Can those wormholes have small one time maximum mass but high total mass and /or regeneration capabilities?

This will also increase the "content"


Interesting.


Isn't that called a cyno?


If "yes" means "no" then yes, definitely.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#109 - 2014-05-14 11:51:03 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Sounds good, but as the guy said earlier, make it easy to tell WHs apart from useful signatures right away for ratters so we dont spend time scanning down unwanted WHs



You should learn about sig sizes that would help you ignore a fair bit.

I thought they removed the ability to determine signatures based upon their signature strength?
Anthar Thebess
#110 - 2014-05-14 12:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Rek Seven wrote:

Isn't that called a cyno?

Cyno means capital ship usage or titan bridges - and i think eve have way to much of them recently.
I don't like eve to become a place where only people with big toys can have some fun.

We are talking about small gangs , that will base on a cruiser or smaller ships , can be even battle cruisers roaming space.

This is creating content for both : raiding parties and the locals.
In case of the renting empires that we have now :
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/20140513.png

Check the grey , green and tan (im bad at colors ) - those are vast areas that in many cases have their NPC space 20-30+ jumps away.

CCP states that it don't want to loose players because eve becomes boring - as how long you can rat in your raven , or mine in your barge.

This kind of wormholes will put some additional content to the game - as they will make your heart to go a bit faster - and this is what eve is about.
Kaeda Maxwell
Screaming Hayabusa
Neo-Bushido Movement
#111 - 2014-05-14 12:33:13 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Sounds good, but as the guy said earlier, make it easy to tell WHs apart from useful signatures right away for ratters so we dont spend time scanning down unwanted WHs



You should learn about sig sizes that would help you ignore a fair bit.

I thought they removed the ability to determine signatures based upon their signature strength?


No just the Deep Space Probes method died with deep space probes.

If you do a 8 or 4 au pinpoint scan on a celestial with some experience you'll figure out pretty quickly which initial scan strengths are worth scanning down.
Since certain sigs still all have the same strength the only real difference is that now you have to make your own 'cheat sheet' based of your own skill and the equipment you use instead of using one somebody made for you.

But if you scan a lot (like many of the people complaining in the thread claim) you really should know pretty quickly when a sig is worth scanning and when it isn't.
Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2014-05-14 12:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Anthar Thebess wrote:
Can we have more Null <-> Null wormholes in NPC null space that is not affected by a sov upgrades.
Can those wormholes have small one time maximum mass but high total mass and /or regeneration capabilities?

This will also increase the "content"


Interesting.


Isn't that called a cyno?


If "yes" means "no" then yes, definitely.


Well the guy said a "one time use with high mass" so please explain to me how this is drastically different from what a cyno does other than not being able to choose a specific location to jump to.

Would the one time use mean that a frigate can come jump through and close it? This would mean that you wouldn't be able to see where the wormhole leads without it closing behind you... So please tell me how you envision such and "interesting" concept working. Roll
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#113 - 2014-05-14 12:40:41 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Anthar Thebess wrote:
Can we have more Null <-> Null wormholes in NPC null space that is not affected by a sov upgrades.
Can those wormholes have small one time maximum mass but high total mass and /or regeneration capabilities?

This will also increase the "content"


Interesting.


Isn't that called a cyno?


If "yes" means "no" then yes, definitely.


Well the guy said a "one time use with high mass" so please explain to me how this is drastically different from what a cyno does...

Would the one time use mean that a frigate can come jump through and close it? This would mean that you wouldn't be able to see where the wormhole leads without it closing behind you... So please tell me how you envision such and "interesting" concept working. Roll



I'm assuming he means that 1000 frigs or so could go through it because it has a high total mass. But a single battleship would not be able to because the maximum allowed mass would be too small.

Edit: numbers are arbitrary. Just giving an example.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....

Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2014-05-14 12:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Last Wolf wrote:

I'm assuming he means that 1000 frigs or so could go through it because it has a high total mass. But a single battleship would not be able to because the maximum allowed mass would be too small.

Edit: numbers are arbitrary. Just giving an example.


Ah okay, that is how wormhole already work. So yeah, i'm all for increasing null to null wormholes that have a low "jumpable mass". However, the ability to close a wormhole using large ships is a great tactic for trapping people and forcing fights.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2014-05-14 13:19:29 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:

I didn't think a lot of small gangs used k-k wormholes to roam, though. Is that common?
.


We use them quite a bit and we see gangs emerging from them quite often too.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
#116 - 2014-05-14 13:58:31 UTC
I'd like to see more c5/c6 -> null wormholes appear, and not for the reason you might think. Please give me a moment.

0.0 guys are often belittled as nullbears but my experience is that often, when we have a wormhole open up into a sov system, the residents behave rationally, and are quite often willing to bring an expeditionary force to the entrance and give us a fight. Certainly if we jump a force in they will respond fairly quickly and we all get the fights that we enjoy - it's after all why we play the game.

These fights are rare because the circumstances for them are rare, but when they occur they are great fun.

In my experience, the 0.0 guys fight in a variety of fleet types. The fights are taxing, enjoyable and in a way, honourable.

When fighting other w-space corps it's just a T3 blob or nothing - usually nothing because both sides pretty much knows who's going to win before anything kicks off. The only way a fight starts is if one side is surprised - and in that case the outcome is not even in question. It's a hollow victory for the winners and a bitter waste of ships in return for zero fun for the losers.

So more c5/c6 -> null wormholes would mean:

1. some more management on the part of sov holders (sorry about that).
2. bringing together willing participants in combat more often
3. more chances for 0.0 folk to reap the riches of w-space without leaving home.
4. easier movement of capitals in and out of c6 space.

I think on the whole, everyone would win.

The only guys who wouldn't are miners. However, these guys are already well versed at protecting themselves by bubbling wormholes and gates. I don't think there's a big downside for them.

Thanks for reading.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#117 - 2014-05-14 15:58:14 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I'd like to see more c5/c6 -> null wormholes appear, and not for the reason you might think. Please give me a moment.

0.0 guys are often belittled as nullbears but my experience is that often, when we have a wormhole open up into a sov system, the residents behave rationally, and are quite often willing to bring an expeditionary force to the entrance and give us a fight. Certainly if we jump a force in they will respond fairly quickly and we all get the fights that we enjoy - it's after all why we play the game.

These fights are rare because the circumstances for them are rare, but when they occur they are great fun.

In my experience, the 0.0 guys fight in a variety of fleet types. The fights are taxing, enjoyable and in a way, honourable.

When fighting other w-space corps it's just a T3 blob or nothing - usually nothing because both sides pretty much knows who's going to win before anything kicks off. The only way a fight starts is if one side is surprised - and in that case the outcome is not even in question. It's a hollow victory for the winners and a bitter waste of ships in return for zero fun for the losers.

So more c5/c6 -> null wormholes would mean:

1. some more management on the part of sov holders (sorry about that).
2. bringing together willing participants in combat more often
3. more chances for 0.0 folk to reap the riches of w-space without leaving home.
4. easier movement of capitals in and out of c6 space.

I think on the whole, everyone would win.

The only guys who wouldn't are miners. However, these guys are already well versed at protecting themselves by bubbling wormholes and gates. I don't think there's a big downside for them.

Thanks for reading.


As a bored null bear, I support this idea.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2014-05-14 16:28:16 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I'd like to see more c5/c6 -> null wormholes appear, and not for the reason you might think. Please give me a moment.


Don't be silly, wormhole space never gets improvements like this. All updates are for k-space and we're lucky if ccp don't mess stuff up in w-space when expansion time comes around. Blink
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
#119 - 2014-05-14 16:32:07 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I'd like to see more c5/c6 -> null wormholes appear, and not for the reason you might think. Please give me a moment.


Don't be silly, wormhole space never gets improvements like this. All updates are for k-space and we're lucky if ccp don't mess stuff up in w-space when expansion time comes around. Blink


I like to think that CCP Greyscale is a decent, rational human being. I strongly believe that he wants the very best for eve and will realise that my suggestion is in everyone's interest.

I am sure he'll increase the number of 0.0->c6 wormholes and enjoy the adulation of players and co-workers alike.

CCP will see his brillance and award him a pay rise and a promotion.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#120 - 2014-05-14 16:54:30 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I'd like to see more c5/c6 -> null wormholes appear, and not for the reason you might think. Please give me a moment.


Don't be silly, wormhole space never gets improvements like this. All updates are for k-space and we're lucky if ccp don't mess stuff up in w-space when expansion time comes around. Blink


I like to think that CCP Greyscale is a decent, rational human being. I strongly believe that he wants the very best for eve and will realise that my suggestion is in everyone's interest.

I am sure he'll increase the number of 0.0->c6 wormholes and enjoy the adulation of players and co-workers alike.

CCP will see his brillance and award him a pay rise and a promotion.



I just multiplied all the null->c6 wormhole counts by 100, I hope this meets your expectations!