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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

First post First post
Author
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1021 - 2014-05-28 22:46:15 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
CCP have foolishly backed themselves into a corner over this by stating that they will not provide an off button.

The only 'adjustment - tweak' which will satisfy most of the player base is an an off button.

CCP need to man up, recognize that even though they tried to do a good thing, they have simply got this wrong by an order of magnitude, and give their player base an off button.

Have I mentioned that we want on off button?


Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
So, when is the off button going to be provided as an option?


Alternative Splicing wrote:
I don't think you realize how game breaking this is for some people. You have repeatedly asked for feedback. Everyone says they want an off button, and these images illustrate why.


Eurynome Mangeiri wrote:
we don't want it to be different, we want it GONE or at least OPTIONAL

almost 1000 post, ALL asking for a way to DISABLE it, don't you understand what this means?

they prevent people from PLAYING!!


It's seriously creepy how familiar this thread is; I swear I've read the above quotes (and many others in this thread) nearly word for word in another thread discussing a particular change. Unfortunately, if that experience is anything to go off of, this is the chain of events we have to look forward to:


  1. In about 1-2 weeks, all CCP activity in this thread will cease without a word, let alone any sort of update on the situation.

  2. Any requests for a dev response, either in this thread, or addressed personally to the devs in question, will go completely ignored.

  3. Months later, any CSM members who actually take notice and promise to follow up on the situation and find out what happened will suddenly go silent and will mysteriously stop responding to any requests for the results of their follow-up.

  4. A year later, we will still be stuck with this broken feature. A few stubborn individuals will continue to call for an off switch, while most will have either given up and continued in silence, or simply unsubbed.


At least the tooltips aren't making anyone physically ill. Still, the end result is about the same: it keeps people from playing the game.

Well done CCP; you have proven that your arrogance, hubris, and pride know no bounds.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.     _ - Kina Ayami_

Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1022 - 2014-05-28 23:01:45 UTC
Ugh, please get the jump tunnel effect whining out of here. You're reducing the thread's credibility. I'm not going to say your complaints aren't valid, but the new jump effects didn't significantly reduce the speed of warping/jumping, it didn't make everything laggy, it didn't replace a semi-functional system with a broken one.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.

Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1023 - 2014-05-28 23:29:22 UTC
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
Ugh, please get the jump tunnel effect whining out of here. You're reducing the thread's credibility. I'm not going to say your complaints aren't valid, but the new jump effects didn't significantly reduce the speed of warping/jumping, it didn't make everything laggy, it didn't replace a semi-functional system with a broken one.


You seem to have missed the point entirely; congratulations.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.     _ - Kina Ayami_

Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1024 - 2014-05-28 23:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaijin Lanis

  • Completely unrelated public service announcement:


Kirren D'marr wrote:
You seem to have missed the point entirely; congratulations.
What you're doing here is confusing someone understanding your point and disagreeing on several grounds and expressing as much with not understanding your point. This is common on the internet, as people tend to believe any argument or point they make is completely sound and bulletproof, and, therefore, the only way anyone could possibly disagree is because they didn't understand.

Caution: The result of expressing this phenomena to one you are sure is under it's influence will result only in a "no u."


  • This completely unrelated public service announcement is now concluded.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1025 - 2014-05-29 00:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Today we released a few tooltip fixes, but the patch notes don't seem to have been updated yet.
Those things were
  • Tooltips for entries in lists (such as contract listings or skills in the character sheet) now anchor on the left side of the entry instead of on top of it
  • Tooltips for items in non-inventory windows (such as items in contracts, saved fittings, variations tab in the information window, etc.) have been disabled (except for ships)
  • Fixed an issue where the Auto Frame option in the starmap was not actually framing the selected system
  • Added localized strings for the tooltip and bracket list delay options in the Esc menu

We are still looking into the bracket list... I know some of you probably choose not to believe me on that, but so be it.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#1026 - 2014-05-29 00:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Did the Hud get its delay back yet. I have not had time to check the latest build because of the long down time earlier. An option to change the delay rather then turn them on or off would be great. Or am I missing the place where the delay can be changed already?

Delay was about right on Sisi yesterday but was super quick on TQ.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1027 - 2014-05-29 00:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Salpun wrote:
Did the Hud get its delay back yet. I have not had time to check the latest build because of the long down time earlier. An option to change the delay rather then turn them on or off would be great. Or am I missing the place where the delay can be changed already?

Delay was about right on Sisi yesterday but was super quick on TQ.
Yeah, it (that is, module tooltips) was delayed a bit today I believe (it was at least supposed to go out today)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#1028 - 2014-05-29 00:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP karkur wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Did the Hud get its delay back yet. I have not had time to check the latest build because of the long down time earlier. An option to change the delay rather then turn them on or off would be great. Or am I missing the place where the delay can be changed already?

Delay was about right on Sisi yesterday but was super quick on TQ.
Yeah, it (that is, module tooltips) was delayed a bit today I believe (it was at least supposed to go out today)

Big smile
Thanks for the reply.
Once a few more delay setting options get added. i like the Grouping of tool tips under Tutorial/New Player, Useful/Wanted by everyone, in space, and HUD. i think we have a winner.

An OFF button for all tool tips even the ones people use allot would be fun just to troll people. Twisted

edit: The NEOCOM tool tips don't fade out when you move outside the window in windows mode. It that functionality being looked at?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1029 - 2014-05-29 00:40:05 UTC
Salpun wrote:
edit: The NEOCOM tool tips don't fade out when you move outside the window in windows mode. It that functionality being looked at?
we do have an open defect on that

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Sven Viko VIkolander
Allemannsrett
#1030 - 2014-05-29 01:29:02 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:

We are still looking into the bracket list... I know some of you probably choose not to believe me on that, but so be it.



Help me ccp karkur, you're my only hope

:))))))
Oraac Ensor
#1031 - 2014-05-29 01:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
Completely unrelated public service announcement:

Kirren D'marr wrote:
You seem to have missed the point entirely; congratulations.
What you're doing here is confusing someone understanding your point and disagreeing on several grounds and expressing as much with not understanding your point. This is common on the internet, as people tend to believe any argument or point they make is completely sound and bulletproof, and, therefore, the only way anyone could possibly disagree is because they didn't understand.

This completely unrelated public service announcement is now concluded.

Nope.

While the phenomenon that you describe undeniably exists, it is not evident here (although there is a hint of it in your own posts). What is evident here is that you have quite clearly missed Kirren D'marr's point on two occasions.
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#1032 - 2014-05-29 03:01:16 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
We are still looking into the bracket list... I know some of you probably choose not to believe me on that, but so be it.
You'll get infinitely more useful and constructive feedback on the new bracket list were you to remove it from tranquility completely and leave it on the test server for the foreseeable future.

I'll admit, in theory, the bracket list is a good idea. A predictive, on-demand, well formatted, interactive list of what is in space would be an incredibly useful feature. The problem is the person who designed the "Overview" window already had the same idea, implemented it over a decade ago, and that implementation has been steadily improved for the last eleven years. So the new bracket list is a textbook case of wheel re-invention.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.

Darkblad
Doomheim
#1033 - 2014-05-29 06:53:49 UTC
Not sure wether this has been mentioned before and I'm aware of that there's currently no real support for the IGB, but anyway:
Tooltips for web page elements (i.e. their title="" attribute) are pretty much broken.

  • Some of them don't appear at all.
  • If they do, their anchor is not the mouse but the top of the browser window instead.

Is this something that can be fixed easily? At least the issue that many tooltips don't appear?

NPEISDRIP

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1034 - 2014-05-29 07:06:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
CCP karkur wrote:
We are still looking into the bracket list... I know some of you probably choose not to believe me on that, but so be it.



Based on CCP’s recent history, can you really blame us ?


What we ask isn’t really complicated. If you insist on continuing down this route, the perfect solution has been provided a few times during this thread:



Provide checkboxes and delay sliders for different types of tooltips:

Essential: Capacitor, modules (range, damage, ammo type etc), fitting screen
Informative: Rollover on items in cargo, Neocom etc
Useless crap: Star, Station, Stargate, Close window etc

Then turn off the new bracket tooltip until its fixed. Not leave it as it is on TQ, where it is making it really difficult to play the game.


Simples ?
Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#1035 - 2014-05-29 07:52:29 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
We are still looking into the bracket list... I know some of you probably choose not to believe me on that, but so be it.



Based on CCP’s recent history, can you really blame us ?


What we ask isn’t really complicated. If you insist on continuing down this route, the perfect solution has been provided a few times during this thread:



Provide checkboxes and delay sliders for different types of tooltips:

Essential: Capacitor, modules (range, damage, ammo type etc), fitting screen
Informative: Rollover on items in cargo, Neocom etc
Useless crap: Star, Station, Stargate, Close window etc

Then turn off the new bracket tooltip until its fixed. Not leave it as it is on TQ, where it is making it really difficult to play the game.


Simples ?



CCP, just do this please.

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.

Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1036 - 2014-05-29 08:25:26 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
  • Tooltips for entries in lists (such as contract listings or skills in the character sheet) now anchor on the left side of the entry instead of on top of it
Awesome! Much better this way.
Quote:
  • Tooltips for items in non-inventory windows (such as items in contracts, saved fittings, variations tab in the information window, etc.) have been disabled (except for ships)
This one was kinda okay, perhaps make it optional instead? Or make it scrollable in a smaller window?
Quote:
  • Fixed an issue where the Auto Frame option in the starmap was not actually framing the selected system
Awesome, now I can click stars to center on them!
Quote:
We are still looking into the bracket list... I know some of you probably choose not to believe me on that, but so be it.

Looking forward to see what you'll come up with, great job fixing so far!
Oraac Ensor
#1037 - 2014-05-29 08:51:05 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
We are still looking into the bracket list... I know some of you probably choose not to believe me on that, but so be it.

What is there to be "looking into"???

How many times and in how many different ways do we have to explain this to you?

It's an ugly black box slapped into the middle of the screen. It offends the eyes. It hinders game play. It ruins immersion.

We want it gone.

How is any of that difficult for you to understand? Why does it need "looking into"?

Get rid of it and give us back the discreet floating text we had previously.

Simple.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#1038 - 2014-05-29 09:48:34 UTC
Good Lord, this is a freakin joke.

Logged into my mission toon and figured I'd go grind a few 4's out. Yeah right. Roped down, can't see which rats are webbing me down, black boxes everywhere, trying to reload different ammo and toss out drones, more EFFING black boxes telling me that ammo is ammo, frigates are frigates, "this is your hammerhead drone" etc. A war target hit local and I KNOW there's no way in hell I could handle a WT fight with more tooltips telling me "This guy doesn't like you."

So I said fk this, bailed on the mission, and docked up.

Ok, still a little heated, I decided to try and get some ice to cool off Ugh.

Annnnnnd just as I thought, more tooltip headaches. Put the mouse over a block of ice to drag it to the fleet hanger, and oh look, oversized, fast acting (regardless of menu slider setting) black box telling me its a block of ice (No sht sherlock) and it's to the left of the mouse covering the words "Orca Fleet Hanger" on the Inventory index.

I'm starting to feel like I'm in the tutes of some cheaply made F2P game. In our corp, we have newer players, VERY new players, old geezers, hardcores, and weekend space cadets. EVERYBODY hates the new tooltips.

Someone from upper management needs to step in, read some of these 50+ pages here, and make the call for a major change. As it is, this absolutely broke an otherwise functional system. Make the damn things go away after 30 days like rookie help chat. NOBODY older than a month needs this kind of oversimplification.

___insert emoticon here for completely disgusted.

.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1039 - 2014-05-29 12:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
Ooohhh look, a CCP team that has enough common sense to provide the players (read PAYING customers) with options to customise their gameplay:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/audio-customization/


Look at all those checkboxes and sliders.


CCP karkur, now thats an idea eh ?
marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1040 - 2014-05-29 14:42:28 UTC
The one thing I and I suspect many other would like to see is the ability to 'Turn Off' tool tips totally, reason being that at times these things are nothing more than a distraction and interference.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.