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New dev blog: Anomalies revisited

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Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#41 - 2011-11-16 15:37:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenris Anis
Ager Agemo wrote:
5th?


Wrong.

Remove insurance.
Raid'En
#42 - 2011-11-16 15:39:44 UTC
not sure i understand well what changed...
when this change will be on singularity so we can see by ourself what changed ?
(and well not sure it can be easily tested as military indexes must be at 0 on sisi :/)
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-11-16 15:44:31 UTC
Simple equation to consider, CCP:

More isk per player = more confidence = more pvp = more fun.

More fun = more subs = more money for CCP.


EVE is MMO on haedmode. The new changes don't go far enough to bring isk back to line-level troops. Not everyone has moon goo or likes high sec missions :/

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#44 - 2011-11-16 15:44:48 UTC
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
My question for greyscale and the other CCP devs that worked on this is the following:

Quote:
Specifically, we determined a target average ISK value for every site and then tuned each one upwards (every site bar one ended up needing a buff of some kind) to meet the target goal


Given that the eve economy is already suffering from a lot of inflation, to the point where both your CEO and your lead economist have said that the economy is 'broken', how do you justify increasing ISK faucets even more when you should be doing the opposite?

Has any research been done in how this increased income will affect the game and the economy as a whole?


^^^^^ Very Much This....

How are you going to balance the very large influx of isk that profitable anoms bring in????

I don't think voiding HS ganker insurances is enough of an isk sink to rectify this!
Dziu
Doomheim
#45 - 2011-11-16 15:48:53 UTC
So what is this dev blog all about anyway? Your thinking to increase the value of some sites or you just brag about doing some future stuff? :)
S8nt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2011-11-16 15:49:21 UTC  |  Edited by: S8nt
Hi,

With the calculations now done with these Anomalies, could you please now go work out the following:

- ISK per hour for mining in belts in say angel space where there is a crapload of ABC's
- ISK per hour mining in say Tribute where there is no ABC's
- ISK per hour mining in system upgraded Grav sites at say a resonable level 3 or 4?

Please CCP, if there is one thing you do this expansion, please fix mining so that it doesn't have to be bot run to make a semi decent income.

S8nt
Ayesha Arkaral
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2011-11-16 15:49:48 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
It's a pretty draining experience reading page after page after page of angry posts, about all kinds of topics but all ultimately driven by the same core concerns of abandonment and neglect, and agreeing with those concerns, and not being able to do much of anything about it. As a result, I've been avoiding listening to the forums)


I know exactly how this feels, as a single developer of some Android apps. I used to do it as a hobby, working extra hours and getting 4 hours of sleep. I was really proud about the features I worked on. Then, I published it, and angry, confused emails just pour in. It sucks. I haven't checked that email in months. I just can't do it anymore. Luckily it's not my full time job - a difference in our situations.

I started trying to get a family member to be a buffer and check the email for me, jotting down main ideas. Even they got tired of it. I hope you guys can employ an intern or something to do that Smile
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#48 - 2011-11-16 15:50:03 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
My question for greyscale and the other CCP devs that worked on this is the following:

Quote:
Specifically, we determined a target average ISK value for every site and then tuned each one upwards (every site bar one ended up needing a buff of some kind) to meet the target goal


Given that the eve economy is already suffering from a lot of inflation, to the point where both your CEO and your lead economist have said that the economy is 'broken', how do you justify increasing ISK faucets even more when you should be doing the opposite?

Has any research been done in how this increased income will affect the game and the economy as a whole?


^^^^^ Very Much This....

How are you going to balance the very large influx of isk that profitable anoms bring in????

I don't think voiding HS ganker insurances is enough of an isk sink to rectify this!



They could always nerf those L4 Missions Twisted
Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2011-11-16 15:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelgrivion
xxxak wrote:
Simple equation to consider, CCP:

More isk per player = more confidence = more pvp = more fun.

More fun = more subs = more money for CCP.


EVE is MMO on haedmode. The new changes don't go far enough to bring isk back to line-level troops. Not everyone has moon goo or likes high sec missions :/


That honestly isn't how it works. If PVP for the sake of PVP was the most fun you could have, people would duke it out on the test servers even more than they do today. The real driver is meaningful PVP.

More ISK and materials means there is less impact from losses through a devaluation of individual assets. Less value in destroying something means less fun in destroying it.

Ya Huei wrote:
They could always nerf those L4 Missions Twisted


It's far more important that they nerf Incursions.
Ulair Memmet
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-11-16 15:50:23 UTC
That whole discussion is so sad. The only thing that anomalies are, are a GRIND. Nothing more. They aren't fun. And if they weren't connected to the sov system, they wouldn't even be worth a devblog.

They are always the same: [Warp to location]->+[kill everything in sight]->?[kill faction spawn]->get bacon
The only random exciting element is whether you'll get a faction spawn or not.
Everything else is static and can be looked up... Nothing random.

This of course is true for almost all pve-content (missions, exploration, wormholes, incursions). And it's frustrating. EVE is all about PVP, but that doesn't mean the PVE content needs to suck.

The first step in the right direction where the escalations. I really liked those. But even those follow the same principle and once you see the title of the escalation you already know what you are gonna see, what you are gonna fight and what you are gonna get for it. The only random element is whether the escalation stops before the last plex...

I once posted an idea to fix this in the old F&I forums on how to maybe make things more interresting. I'll just post it again and hope for a miracle: Randomized modular missions
VaL Iscariot
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-11-16 15:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: VaL Iscariot
lol isk Roll

and, if your running 100% sites and missions to make isk... never mind, you keep doing what you're doing.
Crunchmeister
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2011-11-16 15:54:42 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
On the bright side, it feels like the mood on the forums has been improving hugely in the last month or two, and I'm making an effort to read and post more as a result. Whether or not this is a good thing is of course a matter of personal opinion ;)


That right there is a direct result of the new culture of open communication with your customers and actually listening to their concerns. The general positive mood on the forums when it comes to the game design aspect of things is because of your open communication. You've admitted to your mistakes, you've admitted you were wrong by not listening to the players, and you're now proactively trying to fix that. Devs are not only reading, but actively engaging the community in the various threads related to design, features, balancing, etc. And you're now actually openly taking the advice rather than ignoring it.

I just hope that now that you've been able to tangibly notice the effect of your actions on the community that it will encourage you to continue down this path. Only good things can come of that.

People were constantly telling me I was crazy. For a long time I didn't believe them, but after a while, I started to think they might be right.

But it turns out that they were all wrong. One of the voices in my head is a psychiatrist and he says I'm perfectly sane.

Kralin Ignatov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2011-11-16 15:57:10 UTC
Ulair Memmet wrote:
That whole discussion is so sad. The only thing that anomalies are, are a GRIND. Nothing more. They aren't fun. And if they weren't connected to the sov system, they wouldn't even be worth a devblog.

They are always the same: [Warp to location]->+[kill everything in sight]->?[kill faction spawn]->get bacon
The only random exciting element is whether you'll get a faction spawn or not.
Everything else is static and can be looked up... Nothing random.

This of course is true for almost all pve-content (missions, exploration, wormholes, incursions). And it's frustrating. EVE is all about PVP, but that doesn't mean the PVE content needs to suck.

The first step in the right direction where the escalations. I really liked those. But even those follow the same principle and once you see the title of the escalation you already know what you are gonna see, what you are gonna fight and what you are gonna get for it. The only random element is whether the escalation stops before the last plex...

I once posted an idea to fix this in the old F&I forums on how to maybe make things more interresting. I'll just post it again and hope for a miracle: Randomized modular missions


Holy ****, thats a good idea
StukaBee
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2011-11-16 16:00:19 UTC
Evelgrivion wrote:
Ya Huei wrote:
They could always nerf those L4 Missions Twisted


It's far more important that they nerf Incursions.


Best to be on the safe side, nerf them both.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#55 - 2011-11-16 16:02:58 UTC
StukaBee wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Second, yes, there was a huge angry forum thread for the first blog and I ignored it. That was also a mistake (obviously, in retrospect). This happened partly because I was too focused on looking for reasoned critiques to appreciate the significance of the huge outburst that it generated, but mainly because I've been increasingly withdrawn from the forums for the last year or two. It's a pretty draining experience reading page after page after page of angry posts, about all kinds of topics but all ultimately driven by the same core concerns of abandonment and neglect, and agreeing with those concerns, and not being able to do much of anything about it. As a result, I've been avoiding listening to the forums and focusing on doing the best work I can, but the former occasionally precludes the latter. On the bright side, it feels like the mood on the forums has been improving hugely in the last month or two, and I'm making an effort to read and post more as a result. Whether or not this is a good thing is of course a matter of personal opinion ;)


The moral of this story is to never stop badposting.


^^^ Fixed for you.

Eve forums is wonderful for one reason. Many of which are the volume of trolling.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-11-16 16:03:31 UTC
Crunchmeister wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
On the bright side, it feels like the mood on the forums has been improving hugely in the last month or two, and I'm making an effort to read and post more as a result. Whether or not this is a good thing is of course a matter of personal opinion ;)


That right there is a direct result of the new culture of open communication with your customers and actually listening to their concerns. The general positive mood on the forums when it comes to the game design aspect of things is because of your open communication. You've admitted to your mistakes, you've admitted you were wrong by not listening to the players, and you're now proactively trying to fix that. Devs are not only reading, but actively engaging the community in the various threads related to design, features, balancing, etc. And you're now actually openly taking the advice rather than ignoring it.

I just hope that now that you've been able to tangibly notice the effect of your actions on the community that it will encourage you to continue down this path.


THIS!!!!

Crunchmeister wrote:

Only good things can come of that.


I beg to differ.

If they head my wishes regarding the tornado, that ship would have the HP and shield recharge rate of a Drake, the basespeed of a Machariel, the Dronebay of an Mymidon and two more medslots...

I think you get the Point.

Listen to the user is good and necessary. Turning Eve into "Hello Kitty Online II" is [insert random sh*t here]

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710
Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation
#57 - 2011-11-16 16:07:59 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
It's a pretty draining experience reading page after page after page of angry posts, about all kinds of topics but all ultimately driven by the same core concerns of abandonment and neglect, and agreeing with those concerns, and not being able to do much of anything about it. As a result, I've been avoiding listening to the forums and focusing on doing the best work I can, but the former occasionally precludes the latter. On the bright side, it feels like the mood on the forums has been improving hugely in the last month or two, and I'm making an effort to read and post more as a result. Whether or not this is a good thing is of course a matter of personal opinion ;)


As much as the pain of loosing good co-workers must have been, I can only hope that the new direction that Management is steering you in holds the course. I do have some questions regarding the work you did over the summer ruminating on long term plans for Null sec revamp and changes. I sincerely hope that all that wasn't abandoned in the rush to get "something" out for this winter expansion. I can't help but think you guys (CCP as a whole) need to break out of the "plan the entire release and deliver it in 6 months" model and more "plan out some long term stuff with staged deliveries every 6 months". Ideally a mix of both models where you have some long term stuff incoming along with shorter term stuff. The 6 month planning sessions can then be used to determine if some incoming long term stuff is worthy of being the focus of the expansion or if a shorter term item is going to get the focus.

An example: Starbase changes. You'll probably want to work on some smaller scale example solutions that will vet what you intend to do for the larger stations. This might be a good way to introduce your "small steading" items that would introduce mechanism that when scaled up would end up being core technology for the larger starbases. So you would plan out the mechanism and the way they would scale and make the delivery of the small steading stuff in one expansion then the next expansion would work on the larger starbases and incorporate feedback from the deployment of the steadings (and oh say around 100-300k testers depending on how popular that item becomes)
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2011-11-16 16:08:13 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Also, a couple of things I'm expecting people to ask about that I want to clear up in advance:


...... That was also a mistake (obviously, in retrospect). This happened partly because I was too focused on looking for reasoned critiques to appreciate the significance of the huge outburst that it generated, but mainly because I've been increasingly withdrawn from the forums for the last year or two. It's a pretty draining experience reading page after page after page of angry posts, about all kinds of topics but all ultimately driven by the same core concerns of abandonment and neglect, and agreeing with those concerns, and not being able to do much of anything about it. As a result, I've been avoiding listening to the forums and focusing on doing the best work I can,.....


Thanks for being so honest. But you do realize that all this poison spitting was because we care for eve? If we wouldn`t, we would just unsub, shave our neckbeards, move out of mom's basement and get a job. It is not possible to care for eve without caring for ccp as well, that means every one of you. So, welcome back to the forums, Greyscale, and have a free hug from me.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Jojo Yohan
Boa Innovations
Brothers of Tangra
#59 - 2011-11-16 16:09:24 UTC
What about the nerf to the Drone Horde anomaly that is currently on Sisi. It appears that you're cutting down the ISK/hour by at least a factor of 2 on that one.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#60 - 2011-11-16 16:11:28 UTC
Kralin Ignatov wrote:
Ulair Memmet wrote:
That whole discussion is so sad. The only thing that anomalies are, are a GRIND. Nothing more. They aren't fun. And if they weren't connected to the sov system, they wouldn't even be worth a devblog.

They are always the same: [Warp to location]->+[kill everything in sight]->?[kill faction spawn]->get bacon
The only random exciting element is whether you'll get a faction spawn or not.
Everything else is static and can be looked up... Nothing random.

This of course is true for almost all pve-content (missions, exploration, wormholes, incursions). And it's frustrating. EVE is all about PVP, but that doesn't mean the PVE content needs to suck.

The first step in the right direction where the escalations. I really liked those. But even those follow the same principle and once you see the title of the escalation you already know what you are gonna see, what you are gonna fight and what you are gonna get for it. The only random element is whether the escalation stops before the last plex...

I once posted an idea to fix this in the old F&I forums on how to maybe make things more interresting. I'll just post it again and hope for a miracle: Randomized modular missions


Holy ****, thats a good idea


A few things I like:
1.) Use escalations to increase the value of anoms...
2.) Randomize the triggers at times.

At the same point in time, escalations have problems too:
1.) They send you too far. In my experience, escalations always take me to the busiest system around 8 systems away. And then repeat... such that to finish the a 4-time escalation train I'm so deep in enemy territory that I have to use cheesy methods to beat them (speed tanking drams w/ sb's, cloaky nullified t3's, BO, etc). For a small alliance living in hostile space, this makes them impractical to do for their rewards.

2.) A lot of escalations are buggy... meaning they don't spawn right, etc.