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Subsystem targeting as a mechanic to address cap vs. subcap imbalance
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Leeselou
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-05-12 16:10:03 UTC
I know subsystem targeting has been proposed before, and I agree it isn't a great idea for subcap vs subcap, but it seems like it might be a useful mechanic for subcap fleets to support anti-cap operations. Specifically , subcap a really can't contribute (IMO) vs caps, and they probably shouldn't be able to easily destroy a cap. But, if able to target modules specifically, they could decrease cap effectiveness or force them off the field.

I imagine that this would leverage the overheat damage mechanic, so the cap defense would be Nanite repair paste, and related skills.

It should take multiple ships to damage or even target a subsystem.

Cap weapons shouldn't be able to target subsystems.

Probably should consider adding 'jump engines' as a module so you could knockout a cap jump drive to keep them from retreating.

Also, probably should make it so damaged modules Can't be unfit until repaired.

Anyway, an idea that's been rattling around for a bit.

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-05-12 16:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nariya Kentaya
Leeselou wrote:
I know subsystem targeting has been proposed before, and I agree it isn't a great idea for subcap vs subcap, but it seems like it might be a useful mechanic for subcap fleets to support anti-cap operations. Specifically , subcap a really can't contribute (IMO) vs caps, and they probably shouldn't be able to easily destroy a cap. But, if able to target modules specifically, they could decrease cap effectiveness or force them off the field.

I imagine that this would leverage the overheat damage mechanic, so the cap defense would be Nanite repair paste, and related skills.

It should take multiple ships to damage or even target a subsystem.

Cap weapons shouldn't be able to target subsystems.

Probably should consider adding 'jump engines' as a module so you could knockout a cap jump drive to keep them from retreating.

Also, probably should make it so damaged modules Can't be unfit until repaired.

Anyway, an idea that's been rattling around for a bit.


Either subsystems are quicker to destroy in their entirety than the entire ship, and so everyone just does that and alphas it witht heir fleet every time, or they arent and people just decide to ignore it and kill them anyways.

The problem you run into is these ARE NOT able to be repped by logi-ships, so they WILL be primaried, and all it will do is reduce the entire reason to field caps drastically.

What we need are more reasons to field caps, en masse, why? because then they will DIE.

The whole reason we have titan proliferation is ebcause of the long period of time where they were ebing built, but no one was destroying them, the same reason capital proliferation,a dn by extension capital dominance, is an issue, because destruction is far outpaced by construction.

What we want is enough incentive to field caps, so that more die, so that eventually the construction/destruction comes into balance.

Your Idea wouldnt do that, it would just provide mroe incentive to stockpile more capitals until you have so many it once again becomes an issue, nerfs do not solve proliferation, only raising the bar ebfore they become a problem again, buffs just lower the bar, INCENTIVES are what we need, INCENTIVES/targets that are best taken on by specific styles of fleets.

Hopefully with the SOV rework.


*apologies for spelling, will fix later if i remember, falling asleep)


also on that note, there is no disparity between cap/subcap imbalance unless everyone is just sitting still 50km from eachother, try flying in wormholes, where only the carefullest of dread pilots could kill a subcap, in all instances outside hotdrops and two fleets idling 50-100km from eachother, subcaps have an extreme advantage over caps, carriers being the exception because CARRIERS WERE MEANT TO BE THE ANTI-SUB/LOGI CAPITAL OPTION.
Leeselou
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-05-12 19:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Leeselou
I don't disagree with you. I guess I was thinking if what role subcaps could have in a cap vs cap battle. And I think it should take a lot of ships to injure cap modules, so it shouldn't become a primary mechanic for small fleets vs 1 carrier or dread. As it is, it takes a long time and several caps to kill another cap, so I don't think this changes that. But, it would add another tactical and strategic element and subcaps could be able to force a cap off the field, even in a large battle. Something I don't think they do very well right now. I agree this won't lead to more Titan/dread kills by subcaps, but that isn't exactly the point. It could make an injured cap more easily killed by other capitals though
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-05-12 21:35:40 UTC
Leeselou wrote:
I don't disagree with you. I guess I was thinking if what role subcaps could have in a cap vs cap battle. And I think it should take a lot of ships to injure cap modules, so it shouldn't become a primary mechanic for small fleets vs 1 carrier or dread. As it is, it takes a long time and several caps to kill another cap, so I don't think this changes that. But, it would add another tactical and strategic element and subcaps could be able to force a cap off the field, even in a large battle. Something I don't think they do very well right now. I agree this won't lead to more Titan/dread kills by subcaps, but that isn't exactly the point. It could make an injured cap more easily killed by other capitals though



Uhh

No, it doesn't. A lone cap is a dead cap. A lone super is a dead super. Subcaps kill caps all the time, and it does not take a long time.
Leeselou
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-05-13 00:36:23 UTC
Forums ate my first response.

In any case, I figure the mechanic not for sub cap fleet vs solo cap ( though in my anecdotal experience solo cap drop usually results in a larger counter drop rather than subcaps grinding down a cap). Regardless, it should decrease the size of a subcap fleet necessary to have an effect on a capital. I think that is a good thing.