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Why Eve isn't more popular?

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Alice Cross
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2014-05-12 20:47:17 UTC
Why is Eve not as popular as other "tier 1" MMO games? Silly rabbit, here is why:

First take World of Warcraft with its... 7.8 million subs? Let's just say so. Now take out roughly 15% of female players and you end up with 6.6 million (all calculations are rough). Now remove pre-teens which given the average age of a wow player being early twenties (I couldn't find actual data so I'll be conservative) is around say 35%. Now we have 4.4 million. Next remove wow activities not present in eve, such as exploration (by saying not present I mean are shait), socializing with RL friends just running around (note friends, not fleet members) and showing off their new shiny (mounts, swords, etc) to others. Take that away and you'll end up with less than half but again let's be conservative and say 2.2 million. We could take more if we looked at things such as easy ganking (50mil SP vs 100mil SP in eve and lvl60 vs lvl 50 - I hope you get my point) but let's just stop here.

2.2 million.

Now comes the important part: wow is so easy a caveman can achieve glory playing it, aka IQ required is zero - anyone can do it. Eve requires a certain level of IQ. Let's say 110 at the minimum? That IQ is obtainable by roughly 1 in 4 human beings so applied that brings us down to 600k subscribers. Still way off right? Consider this: if we up the IQ to 120 we get 220k, but let's say it's "twisting the arm" and continue with 600k. The higher the IQ the higher the chances that it is being applied productively (I would hope) and the less of a chance of playing MMOs vs building one. There are many other factors involved such as game history, reputation, learning curve, glory/shame chance ratio, finances (if I could only pick one MMO) and so on.

Given the above (please feel free to poke errors out) and the current scale of other MMO games Eve players should actually hover around the 300k mark.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#122 - 2014-05-12 20:53:42 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Quote:
some explorers will end up stealing your loot

I wonder if anyone stopped playing when I ran away with "his" 500M worth module.


Some people do get unnecessarily upset over it. I've certainly received my share of nasty messages in local and through eve-mail, and notifications that I've been set to terrible standing, as well as an occasional bounty or war dec. But I like to think that most players are encouraged to think of ways to prevent it from happening again, and to make things go more in their favor next time, rather than give up and quit the game.

Inevitably you can't win all the sites no matter how prepared you are but thats what keeps it fun. Going up against a Vagabond is always a toss up. If they get the loot rights, in some sites I'm generally not going to be able to beat them to the wreck to steal it. They're faster. I've just got to try to land the last shot. Then just yesterday I had someone shoot their commander wreck before I could get to it and steal the loot. Didn't expect that. Good job guy! P
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#123 - 2014-05-12 21:00:37 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:


Once again not saying anything is broken or needs changing just answering why more people don't play



Ok, but you are painting it negatively in that regard.

I like the fact its not insta-anything

The day it becaomes like WoW in any way shape or form is the day I unscrub er I mean unsub

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#124 - 2014-05-12 21:04:41 UTC
Honestly, I can't say it would bother me if CCP locked down Hi-Sec and turned it into carebear land. The more, the merrier IMO. Sure, I'd have to change my playstyle, but it would probably force low and null to evolve for the better. I mean, us PvPers would have nothing to worry about, because our playstyle is clearly superior and more fun, right?

Bacon makes us stronger
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#125 - 2014-05-12 21:08:57 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:


Once again not saying anything is broken or needs changing just answering why more people don't play



Ok, but you are painting it negatively in that regard.

I like the fact its not insta-anything

The day it becaomes like WoW in any way shape or form is the day I unscrub er I mean unsub


I agree, if i wanted wow I would simply just play wow.

It is a negative experience for most new players but as i also mentioned there is no way to change that without fubar'ing everything that makes eve great.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#126 - 2014-05-12 21:10:07 UTC
they forgot something about new players... one in a million goes directly to VFK and kills a goon... just saying

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#127 - 2014-05-12 21:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Harry Forever wrote:
they forgot something about new players... one in a million goes directly to VFK and kills a goon... just saying
And fair play to you for doing so Harry, it's just a shame that your earlier posting style rubbed people up the wrong way and ruined it P

Thankfully you appear to have mellowed a bit Big smile

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#128 - 2014-05-12 21:21:21 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:


I agree, if i wanted wow I would simply just play wow.

It is a negative experience for most new players but as i also mentioned there is no way to change that without fubar'ing everything that makes eve great.


I like you

We can be friends

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#129 - 2014-05-12 21:33:08 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

also, i think downtown detroit and crack houses are massively interesting places; just not interesting enough to risk my life for. so a risk free version of that sounds ideal, really. they have a certain je ne sais quois.


As soon as I learn how to respawn, I'd be happy to go on that raid.


Of course. Why do you think television shows like Breaking Bad and Dexter become so crazypopular anyway?

It's because that kind of thing is what people want. Same reason why anybody would play Dungeons and Dragons, so they can play pretend in a safe environment.

And if people think "Detroit, the RPG" isn't a thing, look up Shadowrun.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#130 - 2014-05-12 21:33:26 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
March rabbit wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Quote:
some explorers will end up stealing your loot


I wonder if anyone stopped playing when I ran away with "his" 500M worth module.

seriously i think i made one person out of the game..... Cry
killed his retriever (about 40 milloion ISK)
got bounty to my head about 300million with non-round numbers.... (i'm pretty sure he dropped all his money to it)

and never seen him again Sad


It is hard for existing players to understand the fragility of a new player, It is really hard getting going, so much to think about, so many concerns.
Each time he logs on he wonders whether he made the right choice and whether this game is for him.
He makes the smallest mistake, or even no mistake at all, just the wrong place, wrong time, and his whole weeks gains and efforts are wiped out in a flash.
He thought he was doing ok, everyone had warned him that EvE is hard, and he thinks " why am I paying for this?"

So he doesn't any more.

Simple Isn't it.
I persisted, I survived and hung on and I am glad I did. I am Doing more, an hopefully I am getting better at what I do. I moved on to another corp and different things, and look back with sadness. I guess I am one of those less than 10% who do persist. CCP do well from players like Us, Multiple payments each month, multiple accounts, nice business, real money too, as I cannot be bothered to grind for plex.

Many didn't though, Of those I started with, in the corp I was In,a great bunch of people really excited and enjoying the comradeship, there is Just 1 left there, and he plays alone.

Guess why EVERY one left.

PS. ( no point looking things up to wardec him, to get him to leave too , it was on Different character to this. What?)

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2014-05-12 21:42:47 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

It is hard for existing players to understand the fragility of a new player, It is really hard getting going, so much to think about, so many concerns.
Each time he logs on he wonders whether he made the right choice and whether this game is for him.
He makes the smallest mistake, or even no mistake at all, just the wrong place, wrong time, and his whole weeks gains and efforts are wiped out in a flash.
He thought he was doing ok, everyone said EvE is hard, and he thinks " why am I paying for this?"

So he doesn't any more.

Simple Isn't it.
I persisted, I survived and hung on and I am glad I did. I Doing more, an hopefully I am getting better at what I do. I moved on to another corp and different things, and look back with sadness.
Many didn't, Of those I started with in the corp I was In there is Just 1 left there and he plays alone.
Guess why EVERY one left.


Or it just wasn't the game for him. Me, I was ganked in hisec 3 weeks in. Lost my Venture and my pod full of 40mil of free implants CCP gave me for paying real money for the game. It was that day I knew this was the game for me. That internet pixels could actually have meaning. Where losing a fight actually meant losing something besides the time it takes to get back from the spawn point.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#132 - 2014-05-12 21:45:22 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

It is hard for existing players to understand the fragility of a new player, It is really hard getting going, so much to think about, so many concerns.
Each time he logs on he wonders whether he made the right choice and whether this game is for him.
He makes the smallest mistake, or even no mistake at all, just the wrong place, wrong time, and his whole weeks gains and efforts are wiped out in a flash.
He thought he was doing ok, everyone said EvE is hard, and he thinks " why am I paying for this?"

So he doesn't any more.

Simple Isn't it.
I persisted, I survived and hung on and I am glad I did. I Doing more, an hopefully I am getting better at what I do. I moved on to another corp and different things, and look back with sadness.
Many didn't, Of those I started with in the corp I was In there is Just 1 left there and he plays alone.
Guess why EVERY one left.


Or it just wasn't the game for him. Me, I was ganked in hisec 3 weeks in. Lost my Venture and my pod full of 40mil of free implants CCP gave me for paying real money for the game. It was that day I knew this was the game for me. That internet pixels could actually have meaning. Where losing a fight actually meant losing something besides the time it takes to get back from the spawn point.


Well I am the sole other survivor of over 30 players.
Glad you managed to stay in. We seem to be a rare breed.Sad

It is such a pity we lose so many good people.
Possibly the game would be better if we were to keep just a few more playing.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2014-05-12 21:46:04 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:

Now take eve
If i want to pvp i have to fit a ship (which is limited by my skills and isk) then make several jumps out to low sec where i will probably get instantly baptised by a gang of 6 guys
If i want to team up with my buddy, once again i need to fit a ship make 20+ jumps through high sec and hope i have the proper skills to allow me to do the activity he wants.
If i want to run an incursion or a high level wh i need to find a fleet of trust worthy people and be skilled out the ass.


Is there some reason I'm missing that you can't just live in the space you want to do things and have your friends live in that space too? I'm a massive introvert, but every day I login, I am in the same system my main friends in Eve are in. We don't have to travel to get to each other. We fleet up, do what we do. Things blow up. We have fun. Eve is hard, but seems like you're making it hard on purpose.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#134 - 2014-05-12 22:33:20 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
The NPE is indeed pushing players towards mining and missions I think,



I get an impression that new players are also pushed towards kiting and sniping because of said missions.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Um Winning
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#135 - 2014-05-12 22:49:39 UTC
Obvious alt is obvious...

But IMO, EVE doesn't attract newer players, and more importantly.. KEEP newer players due to some of the answers in this very thread. Between Sarcasm and Trolling, who would stick around? (queue forum trolls telling me to QQ moar!) I'm quite happy in EVE being a care-bear, not partaking in PVP until wishing to, not being caught off guard etc.. and the best part is, I do it with a group!

Probably more a whine and rant more than anything, but the point still stands.. EVE player base will never grow exponentially due to the simple grit of the game and its inhabitants. Don't get me wrong, as I said, I enjoy it.. immensely, but take for example someone new joining, only having read due to coverage of 'BigFights.com' - they are bustled with pressure to join a player corp, and that groups and teamwork make EVE.. EVE, so they do. Only to be then confronted by (sorry miners) a HiSec Mining Corp, advertising to help newer players, to burst some life into EVE. Then suddenly WarDec.. now these new players, trying to get to terms with working in a group (coz we all know that Miner Groups are bursting with PVP vets, GG) and either go out and make a stand, or end up doing what the majority of people do.. Ship Spinning.

Yes I know that PVP is a major part of the game, and again.. Its very optional for me, which I am glad for.. but too many tards think playing the villian actually makes them better, when its the exact reason that newer players can not get to terms with EVE. Like most of the 'genuine posters' on the forums, I have played for a little over 6 years (constant), I understand most things EVE, but a lot of it dissapoints me also, because I would love nothing more than to see EVE get the sub numbers that it deserves, but #Yolo #dgaf rules the day.


might be slightly off topic, but I'm going off an 'IMO' - Flame On, QQ, Stealth: EVE is dying thread, Miner Lover, DGAF, yes my mom lives in a trailer #proud child, and all the wonderful comments that normally go with an answer that doesn't sit well with the 'community' - wont even bite as wont be back to read huehuehue

CS
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#136 - 2014-05-12 22:52:26 UTC
Audrey UntzUntz wrote:
PVE combat in MMO is always shite. At least in EVE you aren't stuck in a canned animation looking like your dancing to the hoolah with lights flashing out of your butt.

I don't think the lack of PVE is what makes EVE unpopular. I believe it's mostly related to the harshness of the EVE player base. If you ask a random player what they think about EVE, they will usually respond with:
1) Incredibly intense and serious game
2) Populated by equally intense and serious douchebags.


This. It's mostly a PR problem.

/thread

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#137 - 2014-05-12 23:06:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Its entirely possible for players to create their own missions for others to play

Of course, they arent gankproof

Oh wait thats a mission

Content generation

Im just typing random words now

Sphincter


Not only is it entirely possible it actually is in effect with LP and isk ship rewards to boot Big smile

T.R.I.A.D
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#138 - 2014-05-12 23:17:01 UTC
Neutrino Sunset wrote:
A recent Jester's Trek ...


Stopped reading right about there..if not a word before that.

I will now base my statement upon only the thread title.

Eve isn't more popular because it refuses to go all the way on the first date.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#139 - 2014-05-12 23:21:49 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Felicity Love wrote:
crush them like lemmings


I got a tingly feeling when you said that


... I had to have a cigarette afterwards. P

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#140 - 2014-05-12 23:27:36 UTC
Quote:
I don't think the lack of PVE is what makes EVE unpopular.


Er... Eve isn't unpopular.

The subject is actually quite the loaded question. Eve is actually wildly popular within its genre (referring here to play-style, not setting) - it's only when you use extremely casual criteria - e.g., "Is an MMO" - that it appears otherwise, but doing so is fairly ridiculous. Planetside 2, Eve, and WoW are all MMOs, and I wouldn't consider any of the three to actually be direct competitors for each other in the sense of substitute goods.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/