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Why Eve isn't more popular?

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Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2014-05-12 19:32:13 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

also, i think downtown detroit and crack houses are massively interesting places; just not interesting enough to risk my life for. so a risk free version of that sounds ideal, really. they have a certain je ne sais quois.


As soon as I learn how to respawn, I'd be happy to go on that raid.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#102 - 2014-05-12 19:32:53 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
What I dont understand is;

when several of the above posters say;

EvE is bad for new players because X Y Z make it a bad environment

Which is the game they currently pay to play.

This game is a free roaming environment.

The truth is that most so-called video game players either do not know what to do with this freedom or find it intimidating.

You cannot blame the poor single-player experience for why more people dont enjoy the open-ended sandbox.

And you cannot say that the apple that is EvE is broken for not being an orange.


I think this idea of "freedom" and "openess" is greatly over estimated by vet players.

Joining a corp can take weeks if not months (due to awoxing) and generally offer very little to new players aside from mixed advice of what to do and skill for depending on who is currently on.

Learning to pvp is like learning to play hockey in the nhl.

SPs take for ever to train and require dedication to a certain path.

WHs, null and low are no place for beginners, sure it's fun if your corp is on but if you end up out there alone it's log out or wait time.

Travel takes forever, "hey bro come (mission, mine, explore, etc.) with me" .. "Ok i'm 23 jumps away" (30 minutes later) "i'm going to log out now we'll run together tomorrow"

And people wonder why new players gravitate to solo mission running and mining. It's always available, requires little set up, has a normal progression, and no one is going to blow you up while you sit there scratching your heading wondering wtf just happend.

I don't think this game can be fixed without ruining the eve we all love. It's simply destined to be a niche game with a tight playerbase.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#103 - 2014-05-12 19:35:47 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:

I think this idea of "freedom" and "openess" is greatly over estimated by vet players.


Apart from experience taking time to learn, in what other way are you restricted?

Because the crux of your counter-point seems to be that it takes time to do stuff.

You say it cant be fixed.

I say it isnt broken.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2014-05-12 19:42:42 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
CCP isn't showing any signs of distress.


Read their 2013 financial statement.

The one with the WoD write-off? Doesn't prove anything about EVE profitability.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#105 - 2014-05-12 19:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
CCP isn't showing any signs of distress.


Read their 2013 financial statement.

The one with the WoD write-off? Doesn't prove anything about EVE profitability.


It directly does. Read it.

The problem isn't Eve profitability, but CCP's financials are directly tied to its lifeline.

Anyway the ultimate point is the reason its not more popular is because of the way its developed (and please, thats not a low blow at developers, it's an observation about the way the company is managed). Knee jerk responses to drops in subs while trying to maintain too many projects with no return.

I'm glad they dumped one of the five, but they should really be woprking on only 2, and should have been the whole time;

1. Spaceships
2. WiS.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#106 - 2014-05-12 19:48:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Organic Lager
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:

I think this idea of "freedom" and "openess" is greatly over estimated by vet players.


Apart from experience taking time to learn, in what other way are you restricted?

Because the crux of your counter-point seems to be that it takes time to do stuff.

You say it cant be fixed.

I say it isnt broken.


Well lets see, off the top of my head

Isk, SP, knowledge, corp mates, time

Time being a very big one seeing as how if you don't have at least 2+ hours of dedicated uninterrupted playtime you are very limited. Not to mention very hard to schedule with others if you can only get on for a couple hours at a time. This limitation is amplified if you have low sp, isk and knowledge.

Edit: I'm not saying it's broken either. Just stating what the issue for new players is and i don't see a way to make it easier for them without completely fubar'ing eve
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2014-05-12 19:48:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Shinhwa
Organic Lager wrote:

WHs, null and low are no place for beginners, sure it's fun if your corp is on but if you end up out there alone it's log out or wait time.


And yet a corp composed of and run by newbies started in low, became an alliance, now holds Sov, and just elected a guy to the CSM. I hear they even still allow fresh newbies to join. Goonswarm started the same way, and still takes in newbies assuming they come from the Something Awful forums. Eve University's raison d'être is educating newbros and they have a presence in every kind of space and I'm pretty sure someone is always on. RvB (hundreds of pilots) take anyone. Stay Frosty (200+pilots), takes anyone.

Heck, join the New Order and gank miners for fun and profit. There are 54 people sitting in channel right now.

Yes joining some duffers corp full of 10 pilots (5 of them the CEO's alts) may not work out for the newbro. So don't join that sort of corp. Easy peasy.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#108 - 2014-05-12 19:50:12 UTC
Anyone else notice that for the people who already have issues with how EVE is, the 'reason' EVE isn't more popular seems to line up exactly with what they personally dislike about EVE??

Curious that is.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#109 - 2014-05-12 19:55:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Organic Lager wrote:

Well lets see, off the top of my head

Isk, SP, knowledge, corp mates, time

Time being a very big one seeing as how if you don't have at least 2+ hours of dedicated uninterrupted playtime you are very limited. Not to mention very hard to schedule with others if you can only get on for a couple hours at a time. This limitation is amplified if you have low sp, isk and knowledge.

Edit: I'm not saying it's broken either. Just stating what the issue for new players is and i don't see a way to make it easier for them without completely fubar'ing eve


So... time... as you mentioned before.

And yes, two hours would be the minimum playtime at least every few days if not more often that you would need to put into an MMORPG of EvE's calibre to get anything approximating the most out of it.

And even then Id say its nothing like enough.

As for low SP and Isk, well those are hardly barriers in your way. Within 48hrs you can be ratting in lowsec no problem at all if you follow a sensible (and easily found) skill queue.

If 500,000isk frigates are too expensive for you, Im not sure what you are doing wring, especially as many of them are free, as are destroyers, mining figs and industrial haulers.

Basically, there is nothing that you cannot do if you put your mind to it, and so I will give you the knowledge limitation. So you go out there and learn

TL:DR; If learning new things and reading new stuff and using your brain to work around problems is something that you avoid in Real LIfe, then EvE is not for you

Also, have you seen how old this toon is? For at least 3/4ths of my life I havent trained any skills.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#110 - 2014-05-12 19:58:31 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:

Well lets see, off the top of my head

Isk, SP, knowledge, corp mates, time

Time being a very big one seeing as how if you don't have at least 2+ hours of dedicated uninterrupted playtime you are very limited. Not to mention very hard to schedule with others if you can only get on for a couple hours at a time. This limitation is amplified if you have low sp, isk and knowledge.

Edit: I'm not saying it's broken either. Just stating what the issue for new players is and i don't see a way to make it easier for them without completely fubar'ing eve


So... time... as you mentioned before.

And yes, two hours would be the minimum playtime at least every few days if not more often that you would need to put into an MMORPG of EvE's calibre to get anything approximating the most out of it.

And even then Id say its nothing like enough.

As for low SP and Isk, well those are hardly barriers in your way. Within 48hrs you can be ratting in lowsec no problem at all if you follow a sensible (and easily found) skill queue.

If 500,000isk frigates are too expensive for you, Im not sure what you are doing wring, especially as many of them are free, as are destroyers, mining figs and industrial haulers.

Basically, there is nothing that you cannot do if you put your mind to it, and so I will give you the knowledge limitation. So you go out there and learn

TL:DR; If learning new things and reading new stuff and using your brain to work around problems is something that you avoid in Real LIfe, then EvE is not for you


TL;DR I managed to get past the first couple of years where your character can't do **** to make money unless they are grandfathered in, so everyone else who can't follow that path is too dumb for eve.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#111 - 2014-05-12 20:00:36 UTC
Let's try this from another approach...

If you never played World of Warcraft before, then if you were looking for a game, would you try it now after it has had it moment in the sun?

How about EverQuest or EverQuest II? I'm pretty sure Sony has some servers running them still.

Or go back further - Ultima Online!

People are not prone to jump into an established game with a long history. People rather be on the ground floor of something new, not following in the footsteps of thousands of players before them. Plus without checking out ads from ten years ago, I am pretty sure Eve was touted as shooting ships apart, Current ads have a similar feel. Anybody might feel the game has not progressed beyond that.

Just a thought.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#112 - 2014-05-12 20:02:55 UTC
Quote:
some explorers will end up stealing your loot


I wonder if anyone stopped playing when I ran away with "his" 500M worth module.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Dave Stark
#113 - 2014-05-12 20:07:01 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
If you never played World of Warcraft before, then if you were looking for a game, would you try it now after it has had it moment in the sun?


no, but that's because i don't want a game where progress is measured in "how many days have you done the same thing over and over" rather than a game where progress is measured in almost any metric you like depending upon how you play where you're free to do literally anything you want.

you're trying to compare apples to the eiffel tower.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#114 - 2014-05-12 20:18:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

The thing that keeps me in Eve and has driven all my online friends away is the lack of skill and loot grind. Most mmo's have in place a mechanism that rewards those that can raid 23/7 to get the most level and loot. This is not the case in eve. If I play for ten years I will have more SP and options than the 1 month old player. Most newer players can’t get past this and don’t understand you have to find the role your SP allow to fill and one you like.


Welp, that's stroke #4 I've had caused by clicking the like button, check your EVEmail tomorrow for the bill to my obamacare premiums that are now sky high.

LOL it goes to show even polar opposites can find common ground in EvE. Big smile
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#115 - 2014-05-12 20:24:25 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
It has almost nothing to do with NPC AI. And you are incorrect, it has changed a lot in the last 6 years that i have been playing.

It has to do with the fact that the game has real loss, it has to do with the fact that they try to release an expansion every 6 months but it is usually just a patch, and it has to do with the terrible representation of the player base.

I would agree it also has alot to do with real loss. Other mmo's when you die you respawn with all your stuff. I dont care how much isk you have if you loose a 5 billion isk ship it still puts that knot in you stomach.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#116 - 2014-05-12 20:29:02 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
It has almost nothing to do with NPC AI. And you are incorrect, it has changed a lot in the last 6 years that i have been playing.

It has to do with the fact that the game has real loss, it has to do with the fact that they try to release an expansion every 6 months but it is usually just a patch, and it has to do with the terrible representation of the player base.

I would agree it also has alot to do with real loss. Other mmo's when you die you respawn with all your stuff. I dont care how much isk you have if you loose a 5 billion isk ship it still puts that knot in you stomach.


Yup. Last year I was waiting on a check, and my car was not legal to drive. I got pulled over, and of course got that knot.

The same week, I almost lost a Vargur. That felt worse, and I didn't even lose it.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Rikanin
Mining Reloaded
The Commonwealth.
#117 - 2014-05-12 20:33:40 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

▬▬► Features & Ideas Discussion
FuryBot™ 0.86


Forum mod or troll? I vote troll.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#118 - 2014-05-12 20:37:02 UTC
Getting a cookie in eve is hard. Most people do something rather tedious for a rather long while just to get enough isk for a cookie or two. Then some ass-hole comes along, shanks you with a spoon, and takes your cookie. No more cookie for you, and you cry a bit while your cookie-less spoon-shanked spilled guts slowly diffuse out of your frozen corpse into the nothingness of space.

Getting cookies in other MMOs is easy. Other MMOs have spoon-free zones where cookie shanking is a no-no. And each passing day those other games throw more and more cookies your way until you come down with the 'beetus, and then they have you for life 'cause your legs stop working and you can't get out of your chair.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#119 - 2014-05-12 20:46:22 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:

Well lets see, off the top of my head

Isk, SP, knowledge, corp mates, time

Time being a very big one seeing as how if you don't have at least 2+ hours of dedicated uninterrupted playtime you are very limited. Not to mention very hard to schedule with others if you can only get on for a couple hours at a time. This limitation is amplified if you have low sp, isk and knowledge.

Edit: I'm not saying it's broken either. Just stating what the issue for new players is and i don't see a way to make it easier for them without completely fubar'ing eve


So... time... as you mentioned before.

And yes, two hours would be the minimum playtime at least every few days if not more often that you would need to put into an MMORPG of EvE's calibre to get anything approximating the most out of it.

And even then Id say its nothing like enough.

As for low SP and Isk, well those are hardly barriers in your way. Within 48hrs you can be ratting in lowsec no problem at all if you follow a sensible (and easily found) skill queue.

If 500,000isk frigates are too expensive for you, Im not sure what you are doing wring, especially as many of them are free, as are destroyers, mining figs and industrial haulers.

Basically, there is nothing that you cannot do if you put your mind to it, and so I will give you the knowledge limitation. So you go out there and learn

TL:DR; If learning new things and reading new stuff and using your brain to work around problems is something that you avoid in Real LIfe, then EvE is not for you

Also, have you seen how old this toon is? For at least 3/4ths of my life I havent trained any skills.


Yes time and ease of access.

Take WoW as the gold standard for mmos (by sales)
If i want to pvp i simply push a button and boom i'm pvping
If i want to team up with a buddy i push a button and warp beside him and start fighting
If i have time and want to do a large scale raid i push a button and boom i'm raiding

Now take eve
If i want to pvp i have to fit a ship (which is limited by my skills and isk) then make several jumps out to low sec where i will probably get instantly baptised by a gang of 6 guys
If i want to team up with my buddy, once again i need to fit a ship make 20+ jumps through high sec and hope i have the proper skills to allow me to do the activity he wants.
If i want to run an incursion or a high level wh i need to find a fleet of trust worthy people and be skilled out the ass.

All of the above require at least 2 hours of consecutive game play time. If i only have 30-60 minutes it's mission, mine or ship spin

Of course as someone mentioned i could join rvb for instant pvp fun but then i'm restricted to 24/7 pvp and only pvp.
Or i could join a null sec or wh corp but then like rvb i'm restricted to 24/7 wh/null activity which is usually limited to who is on.

Once again not saying anything is broken or needs changing just answering why more people don't play
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-05-12 20:46:41 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Quote:
some explorers will end up stealing your loot


I wonder if anyone stopped playing when I ran away with "his" 500M worth module.

seriously i think i made one person out of the game..... Cry
killed his retriever (about 40 milloion ISK)
got bounty to my head about 300million with non-round numbers.... (i'm pretty sure he dropped all his money to it)

and never seen him again Sad

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"