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WH voting ballots for those interested
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Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-05-11 13:35:23 UTC
I was bored, so I extracted all ballots from published ballots files that contained at least one of wormhole 5 candidates.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SEyi6owF7uRhYbgFz4uLYJv0m7xUiABwRYPMlH4EDJ0/edit?usp=sharing

First column is the amount of accounts that voted for that specific ballot
Last 5 columns shows amount of votes 5 candidates got from it (not taking into account any STV voodoo - just plain ballot# for each candidate showing on that ballot)

To sum it up, here is the number of ballots each of candidates showed up on.

PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI
3489 10879 12006 3047 5200

Total number of ballots containing WH candidates: 16 519 - that's half of all ballots

There are some interesting ballots in there (and by interesting I meant ballots that should hang their heads and pretend they are not there), here are some examples:

136 CORBEX
87 ASAYANAMI
22 CORBEX ASAYANAMI JAMES
15 JAMES
and so on.....

guys, really, You hate other candidates so much to just NOT include any more people into Your ballot, even other WH5 candidates??

Looking at the voting log we where this close to getting second WH representative (Asayanami was excluded at the last step of STV process)

In total there where only 1 067 ballots containing all 5 WH candidates:
# Sum
1 5143
2 7737
3 1619
4 953
5 1067

Can someone with more knowledge of STV working make more sense of those data and maybe we can come up with better strategy next year?

Last one statistic - number of WH candidates showing up together on different ballots:

# of candidates Candidates Ballots
1 JAMES 2 212
1 CORBEX 1 128
1 ASAYANAMI 1 019
1 KAREN 469
1 PROC 315

2 CORBEX JAMES 5 835
2 CORBEX ASAYANAMI 443
2 JAMES ASAYANAMI 434
2 PROC JAMES 211
2 KAREN ASAYANAMI 179
2 PROC CORBEX 176
2 JAMES KAREN 175
2 CORBEX KAREN 113
2 PROC ASAYANAMI 89
2 PROC KAREN 82

3 CORBEX JAMES ASAYANAMI 468
3 PROC CORBEX JAMES 303
3 PROC CORBEX ASAYANAMI 165
3 JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI 153
3 PROC JAMES ASAYANAMI 146
3 CORBEX JAMES KAREN 116
3 CORBEX KAREN ASAYANAMI 110
3 PROC KAREN ASAYANAMI 54
3 PROC JAMES KAREN 53
3 PROC CORBEX KAREN 51

4 PROC CORBEX JAMES ASAYANAMI 528
4 CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI 176
4 PROC CORBEX KAREN ASAYANAMI 120
4 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN 80
4 PROC JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI 49

5 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI 1 067
Sum of Total 16 519

It seems that among all those votes we managed to vote on every single possible combination of wh candidates

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Ahost Gceo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-05-11 14:18:35 UTC
This is the first year I have voted for CSM. Was the 1,2,3,4,5 method of voting used the years before me?

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-05-11 14:23:30 UTC
Ahost Gceo wrote:
This is the first year I have voted for CSM. Was the 1,2,3,4,5 method of voting used the years before me?


last Year was first time it was STV iirc, before that was plain old: one account - one vote for single candidate

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#4 - 2014-05-11 18:27:06 UTC
Quote:
5 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI 1 067


Looks familiar :)

Thanks, Max, for putting this data and post together. It's quite a shame we didn't manage better teamwork on this election to offset the organized null-bloc voting, but this is what the community decided overall to do. There seems to have been a respectable number within the wormhole community that toed the line and supported the Wormhole Five. Perhaps next year we'll have a better process for working together as a community.

I get that some/many within wormholes don't like each other, or didn't like the candidates, or whatever, but as someone that worked with the Wormhole Candidates for the last couple months, I can assure you that each one of them, and myself, were very sincere about this duty and responsibility, and the bottom line is that all of your wormhole candidates this year wanted to work with you and help keep wormholes great, protect those things that make them great, and communicate/discuss the ideas/issues/suggestions brought forward by you all.

Corbexx will do that and do well. He'll need our support to carry forward the needs/wants/wishes of our communities.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

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Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-05-11 18:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Quote:
5 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI 1 067


Looks familiar :)

.


just to iterate on one thing - the order of ballot differs, so its not all 1067 in the exact order shown above, i just had generic order for my grouping so that all ballots containing the same set of WH candidates shown up as one group in my pivot, and may not even be in the top 5 slots of ballot but scaterred any way across the 14 slots

look at the link at the top of post and You can do Your own voodoo on it :)

I rally hope someone will pick up and do some serious math on it.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#6 - 2014-05-11 18:49:52 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Quote:
5 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI 1 067


Looks familiar :)

.


just to iterate on one thing - the order of ballot differs, so its not all 1067 in the exact order shown above, i just had generic order for my grouping so that all ballots containing the same set of WH candidates shown up as one group in my pivot, and may not even be in the top 5 slots of ballot but scaterred any way across the 14 slots

look at the link at the top of post and You can do Your own voodoo on it :)

I rally hope someone will pick up and do some serious math on it.


After looking at what you did in the google.doc, if I'm not mistaken, the one with that order was 70... Which is cool, although on the disappointing side What?

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-05-11 19:14:18 UTC
70 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Psianh Mike Sugar Mangala Xander Steve Gorski Kachaturian
4 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Mike Sugar Xander
3 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Steve Sugar Xander Gorski DNSBLACK Mangala mynnna Mike
3 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Psianh Mike Sugar Xander Steve Gorski Mangala Kachaturian
2 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Mike Psianh Sugar Mangala Xander Steve Gorski Kachaturian
1 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI PsychoBitch FunkyBacon Mangala Kachaturian Matias Jayne commander
1 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Psianh Mike Sugar Mangala Xander Steve Psychotic FunkyBacon
1 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Mangala
1 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI

sorry for bad formatting. there is a total of 86 ballots that starts with the 5 candidates in that order and than the rest is different

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#8 - 2014-05-11 19:29:51 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
70 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Psianh Mike Sugar Mangala Xander Steve Gorski Kachaturian
4 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Mike Sugar Xander
3 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Steve Sugar Xander Gorski DNSBLACK Mangala mynnna Mike
3 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Psianh Mike Sugar Xander Steve Gorski Mangala Kachaturian
2 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Mike Psianh Sugar Mangala Xander Steve Gorski Kachaturian
1 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI PsychoBitch FunkyBacon Mangala Kachaturian Matias Jayne commander
1 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Ali Psianh Mike Sugar Mangala Xander Steve Psychotic FunkyBacon
1 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI Mangala
1 PROC CORBEX JAMES KAREN ASAYANAMI

sorry for bad formatting. there is a total of 86 ballots that starts with the 5 candidates in that order and than the rest is different

Thank you Max for clarifying. I was referring to my specific list, but yea, today's my name day, so my party last night has me a bit off this morning.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#9 - 2014-05-11 19:56:10 UTC
On the positive side, the U-Boat series will continue 8)
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-05-11 21:03:42 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
On the positive side, the U-Boat series will continue 8)


:)

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-05-11 21:19:50 UTC
Honestly I think what happened was people didn't want to vote blindly for all 5 (which I am actually ok with, blind votes lead to bad CSM's).

Last year was the first time we used STV and everyone was all propaganda to vote for all 5 to see how far we can push the system.
This year people went with their heart rather then what people were told to vote. I will admit, with no shame, that I voted with my heart and i didn't have all 5 WH candidates on my ballot. No shame.

I am not worried about the fact that we don't have 2 wormholers on the CSM. Would I have like to see someone else on there along with Corb? sure. But I believe that Corbexx can do the job just fine on his own, and knowing some of the other CSM members I am confident in them helping WH's if some issue were to come up.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-05-11 21:46:17 UTC
Bronya Boga wrote:
Honestly I think what happened was people didn't want to vote blindly for all 5 (which I am actually ok with, blind votes lead to bad CSM's).

Last year was the first time we used STV and everyone was all propaganda to vote for all 5 to see how far we can push the system.
This year people went with their heart rather then what people were told to vote. I will admit, with no shame, that I voted with my heart and i didn't have all 5 WH candidates on my ballot. No shame.

I am not worried about the fact that we don't have 2 wormholers on the CSM. Would I have like to see someone else on there along with Corb? sure. But I believe that Corbexx can do the job just fine on his own, and knowing some of the other CSM members I am confident in them helping WH's if some issue were to come up.


there is nothing wrong with voting with Your heart. But STV is peculiar system and if You think in lines of "I want to vote for corbex so i will vote only for corbex" like suprisly large number of players did You are literally crossing out your vote from the poll after one round of STV iteration (can someone with better understanding of STV mechanics confirm this??)

WLike You said: You would like to see someone next to him, so why didnt You put them in the ballot even at the far place?

I mean Assayanami ended up as a wild card. I was almost shocked how good results he got. And Proc and James doing rather poorly was even bigger shocker (James was in the f$%^&ng CFC ballot). Still if You look only at the 3 main candidates (in my book that was Corb, James and Proc) If all WH members would have added them somewhere in the ballot even at the far palce we would have two representatives.

Notion that having one representative is just as good as having two is.. well... little off in my book. Talk to Chitsa and James and ask them if any one of them would have managed to do the sheer workload of wh stuff (consulting, discussing, reacting to wh problems) alone. Not to mention second mind that can come up with problem You haven't come up with is a god send in any sounding board.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-05-11 21:58:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
so what you're saying is that people actually voted for who they wanted to get in and didnt vote for people they didnt want to get in???
damn son, say it aint so!!

I don't care if someone's lived in WHs their whole life, if i dont think theyre a good csm rep i aint voting for them. I would hope most people do the same.

also why do you assume wh people dont vote for non wh candidates?
it's important to get 1 good wh rep, multiples are rather redundant.

There is no Bob.

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Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#14 - 2014-05-11 22:39:29 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
so what you're saying is that people actually voted for who they wanted to get in and didnt vote for people they didnt want to get in???
damn son, say it aint so!!

I don't care if someone's lived in WHs their whole life, if i dont think theyre a good csm rep i aint voting for them. I would hope most people do the same.

also why do you assume wh people dont vote for non wh candidates?
it's important to get 1 good wh rep, multiples are rather redundant.


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Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-05-11 22:46:24 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:

there is nothing wrong with voting with Your heart. But STV is peculiar system and if You think in lines of "I want to vote for corbex so i will vote only for corbex" like surprisingly large number of players did You are literally crossing out your vote from the poll after one round of STV iteration (can someone with better understanding of STV mechanics confirm this??)


Technically you only get one vote. If your #1 gets in second iteration doesn't matter anymore and your vote is done. So if lets say Corb needed 50 votes to get in and 70 people put in his name as #1 then only 20 people got their vote transferred to the second pass.

Max Kolonko wrote:

WLike You said: You would like to see someone next to him, so why didn't You put them in the ballot even at the far place?


I did, just not in top 5. I considered who i wanted more then anyone and just made my list by how productive and useful they would be to the CSM. I didnt vote for major block candidates because really there is no point they will get elected anyways but i did put votes on those small entity candidates I thought would preform well. Which may or may not have included all WH candidates. I had 4 out of 5 wh candidates on my ballot but only 2 were at the very top(#1 and #2)

Max Kolonko wrote:

I mean Assayanami ended up as a wild card. I was almost shocked how good results he got. And Proc and James doing rather poorly was even bigger shocker (James was in the f$%^&ng CFC ballot). Still if You look only at the 3 main candidates (in my book that was Corb, James and Proc) If all WH members would have added them somewhere in the ballot even at the far palce we would have two representatives.


very true. But again people voted not because "He is a wormholer put him in top 5" but they voted with "I like this guy and I think he will do well" Not to mention that people start to understand that CSM has to be a balanced team of people from all corners of space, no matter your affiliation.

Max Kolonko wrote:

Notion that having one representative is just as good as having two is.. well... little off in my book. Talk to Chitsa and James and ask them if any one of them would have managed to do the sheer workload of wh stuff (consulting, discussing, reacting to wh problems) alone. Not to mention second mind that can come up with problem You haven't come up with is a god send in any sounding board.


That is true. 2 is better then one, and I mentioned this at my original reply. But again, CSM votes should be intelligent rather then a race for who can get more people in. I would have liked to see any of the other wormholers make it, but from what chitsa has told me is that they kind of split PR duties and CCP communication duties pretty heavily(Not to say that one of them didn't work but one just did more of one then the other).

TL;DR Two is better then one but I am sure Corbexx will do fine. STV did its job and people voted with their hearts.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-05-12 00:29:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
Bronya Boga wrote:


Technically you only get one vote. If your #1 gets in second iteration doesn't matter anymore and your vote is done. So if lets say Corb needed 50 votes to get in and 70 people put in his name as #1 then only 20 people got their vote transferred to the second pass.

.


im not STV expert, but You vote is not 0/1. it goes into fractions, so every of those 70 guys would leak 2/7th of their 1 vote to their other candidates.

Jack Miton wrote:


also why do you assume wh people dont vote for non wh candidates?
it's important to get 1 good wh rep, multiples are rather redundant.

Becasue many didnt - look at OP, here are examples of complete ballots:

136 CORBEX
87 ASAYANAMI
22 CORBEX ASAYANAMI JAMES
15 JAMES

those are complete ballots, nothing removed from them. 136 guys wanted Corbex in. and no one else. Now i really need someone that digged trough STV algorithm to confirm this, but as far as I know those are lost votes after first iteration of STV proces.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
ViRtUoZone
Commie Bunny Pirates
#17 - 2014-05-12 00:47:29 UTC
Sorry for not blindly voting for every single wormhole candidate because they're wormhole candidates?

I voted for Asayanami and Corbexx because I agree with what they are running for.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#18 - 2014-05-12 01:26:44 UTC
I didn't voted this year. ******* forgot about it.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-05-12 01:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronya Boga
Max Kolonko wrote:
Bronya Boga wrote:


Technically you only get one vote. If your #1 gets in second iteration doesn't matter anymore and your vote is done. So if lets say Corb needed 50 votes to get in and 70 people put in his name as #1 then only 20 people got their vote transferred to the second pass.

.


im not STV expert, but You vote is not 0/1. it goes into fractions, so every of those 70 guys would leak 2/7th of their 1 vote to their other candidates.



Not quite, although I see why you would assume that. Your vote get transferred down under 2 conditions if your #1 vote didn't make the cut in the first pass then it goes to #2, or if your #1 had more votes in the first pass then they would statistically need to make it in no matter how many passes they make. The math for that, and Im going to assume they used the droop quote equation for this is

Votes needed to win = (valid votes cast/seats to fill+1)+1

So from your spread sheet it would look like this
Votes needed to win = [16519/(14+1)]+1
Votes needed to win = 1102

now the next thing you have to consider is once the ballots are cast your vote loses its individuality. It becomes just a +1 in a sea of +1's. SO here are the rules

If a candidate reaches the quota he is elected, if the have a surplus votes are transferred to other candidates. So that's the first pass.

Second pass is now without the clear winners and if there are no new candidates that reach the quota, the candidates with the fewest votes is eliminated and the votes are transferred.

the second step keeps repeating itself until all seats are filled. So no, your vote doesn't get split up.

edit: i guess those arent full numbers of all the ballots cast BUT you get the idea of how STV works.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-05-12 07:24:26 UTC
ViRtUoZone wrote:
Sorry for not blindly voting for every single wormhole candidate because they're wormhole candidates?

I voted for Asayanami and Corbexx because I agree with what they are running for.


If someone dosnt like other candidates they will not vote for them. period. Nothing wrong with that if you made dwcision to vote like that.

But if we want to make sure that we have strong voice in csm we really need to forget about difrencess and listen to who our iwn candidates endorse and act like a colective.

I dont know if it is candidates fault that they havent reached enough people, or that they havent stressed the need of voting on whole group. Or is it that corporations leadership hacent put effort to reach those of their members that are not activly following csm stuff and encorage them. Or was it simply that we are no longer capable of working toghever like last year.

In my book proc james and corb runned on very similar platform. Karen lacked expierience but would be valued addition given her rl business expierience and npe perspective. Asa wasnt my first choice but i added him because he was endorsed by all other candidates that i wanted to vote in wh. And from my perspective one wh voice on csm is better that none and you never know how the voting goes.

If someone nade concious decision like you guys to vote only for selection of candudates then all power to you. But i will not bielevie that those few hundreds people that voted for single candidate and no one else made the choice by themselfs. They where told to vote like that by their leadership or by their candidates.

Now if someone in a year claim that csm suck and my poses are still broken you have them to thank for. There is only so much single person can do and 1/14th of vote is much less for ccp than 2/14th when talking to csm.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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