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Crime & Punishment

 
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Duels and Awoxing
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General Guardian
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-05-12 21:30:26 UTC
Carebear? Lul.

Awoxing doesn't affect me. But unlike some close minded people I try to view the game from other peoples perspectives, I was considering awoxing and this question popped up in my head, it seems remarkably easy to awox, which I think might not send the right message to newer players. I know someone who quit eve because it looked like CCP encouraged deception and bullying, which isn't the case. It's merely allowed. I actually care about the growth of Eve online as a whole, but you guys are welcome to keep being ignorant to the point I'm trying to make.

But it is indeed much easier to troll than to actually understand the topic and post something constructive. Posting in the forum about a game mechanic is always a case of a player crying about a personal experience, why would anyone post in a discussion forum otherwise? lol
Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-05-12 23:06:02 UTC
It is just as likely that an awoxer will open a new players eyes to a different style of game play. It seems to me that too many people think only negative things come from an awoxer in corp. It drives a corp together, makes them work with one another, helps them learn about loss and how to avoid it. This provides content, and gives people a chance for the first time to stop mission running, stop mining and try something new. It doesn't always end up that way, some corps fall apart, and people leave, I would like to think that was their first real taste of eve and the people who leave the game are the ones who really don't care for a game that is completely based around pvp.

I have been thanked for awoxing a corp, not by people who enjoy watching tears, but by new people who never knew what was possible, who had fun trying to chase me down with their corp mates. I kept people interested in the game just because they had some sense that I needed to be stopped, and they enjoy the cat and mouse game we have going on.

I think awoxing is an important part of EvE and if you want to remove it, then you will cheapen eve and what it is, a sandbox mmo where just about anything in game goes.
Chenguang Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-05-13 09:46:51 UTC
Adira Nictor wrote:
It seems to me that too many people think only negative things come from an awoxer in corp.

Every war bumps tech progress and every disease adjusts health care arsenal.
But it's not a thing to love.

Still, I'm OK with awox, but this moment should be clarified in tutorials, as it with suicide ganking. It may not be broken, but lack of explanations makes it look like broken.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#24 - 2014-05-13 09:59:04 UTC
General Guardian wrote:
Since duels were introduced, what now is the purpose of being able to shoot corp members besides to awox. If this is the only purpose then why hasn't this ability been removed?


its used for slingshotting freighters with webs, which is a reasonable reward for taking the risk of having a non npc corp freighter pilot.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#25 - 2014-05-13 11:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Adira Nictor wrote:
Drunken Angel wrote:
Confirming highsec should only contain consensual pvp and all ganking and awoxers are noobs who cant do real pvp in nullsec thus resort to ganking...lolz


I am only a month old, what chance do I have in fair pvp with 90 mil sp pilots? No I think I will just beat up stupid CEOs and take their lunch money.



Real rough calculations from a "base noob frigate plan" shows about 40 days to get L4 across the board in the "core" PvP stuff (Core ship skills are approx 30 days, then 8 days for points, AB/MWD, etc). This is about 1.7 million SP total that you train.

The MAXIMUM SP that someone can apply to a single frigate is around 10.7 million SP ... which makes them only a few percent better than you (most skills are 2,4, or 5% per level) ... and they will have had to spend nearly 2/3 of a year (240 days) to get all those skills.


Then we're even assuming that said 90m SP player has even bothered training their combat skills well (they might be industry or mining skilled, and only have like 20m total in ships, drones, gunnery).

(Note -- I'm assuming "Base Noob" getting 1800 SP per hour)


edit -- noticed you mentioned "fair PvP". Forget anything about the notion of "fair". Do whatever you can to stack the odds in your favor (bring friends with ewar/gang links/logistics/etc. ... pretend to be weak, and then wait for the "attacker" to get complacent and be in a mission boat, or hauler, or in something that can't hit your frigate well/at all (e.g. a BS, and orbit at 500))

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-05-13 14:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
General Guardian wrote:
Carebear? Lul.

Awoxing doesn't affect me. But unlike some close minded people I try to view the game from other peoples perspectives, I was considering awoxing and this question popped up in my head, it seems remarkably easy to awox, which I think might not send the right message to newer players. I know someone who quit eve because it looked like CCP encouraged deception and bullying, which isn't the case. It's merely allowed. I actually care about the growth of Eve online as a whole, but you guys are welcome to keep being ignorant to the point I'm trying to make.


Boss, your wrong here, on multiple levels. Firstly, AWOXing is only as easy as the corp allows it to be. While it is true that even the most stringent OPSEC programs will never catch EVERYONE attempting to AWOX, its also very easy to mitigate initial losses. For example, when going ratting with the "new guy", should I bring my basic fit drake, or my faction fit, blinged out vindicator? Hmm...

As for your point about CCP not encouraging deception and bullying... yeah... they had an entire advertising campaign about being the bad guy. Bad guys lie, cheat, and steal. So yes, its encouraged.

It also sends EXACTLY the right message to new players. A new player should not have the false pretense that EvE is a nice guys game, because its really not meant to be. Losses are permanent, mistakes have lasting consequences, and thats the way we like it. A new player that leaves the game after thinking its a WoW clone is not a loss to the community, opposed to a new player that joins up, learns the ropes, becomes part of the experience of new eden and stays for years... what one do you like better?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-05-13 15:32:51 UTC
Minor but at times helpful point - allows target gunnery practice from the POS (iirc you cannot duel a POS gunner?)

Also it is helpful when using area-of-effect actions within a corp fleet so as not to get Konkordokken in highsec (though still not a great idea - think about things like smartbombs or the AOE ECM).

Finally it allows for a level of PVP training that duelling simply does not (at least in an easy way) Split pilots into attackers and defenders and as players log in they get assigned to one or the other team to duke it out - not simple to do with the duelling system.

One last and very important thing.

It lets you blow up corp mates if they are being jerks. Sometimes as FC you just have to turn all your guns onto that idiot who just won't follow orders... The follow my lead or I will blow you into a cloud of colourful pixels style of leadership may not be too common but hey sandbox is sandbox Twisted
Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-05-13 20:27:04 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Adira Nictor wrote:
Drunken Angel wrote:
Confirming highsec should only contain consensual pvp and all ganking and awoxers are noobs who cant do real pvp in nullsec thus resort to ganking...lolz


I am only a month old, what chance do I have in fair pvp with 90 mil sp pilots? No I think I will just beat up stupid CEOs and take their lunch money.



Real rough calculations from a "base noob frigate plan" shows about 40 days to get L4 across the board in the "core" PvP stuff (Core ship skills are approx 30 days, then 8 days for points, AB/MWD, etc). This is about 1.7 million SP total that you train.

The MAXIMUM SP that someone can apply to a single frigate is around 10.7 million SP ... which makes them only a few percent better than you (most skills are 2,4, or 5% per level) ... and they will have had to spend nearly 2/3 of a year (240 days) to get all those skills.


Then we're even assuming that said 90m SP player has even bothered training their combat skills well (they might be industry or mining skilled, and only have like 20m total in ships, drones, gunnery).

(Note -- I'm assuming "Base Noob" getting 1800 SP per hour)


edit -- noticed you mentioned "fair PvP". Forget anything about the notion of "fair". Do whatever you can to stack the odds in your favor (bring friends with ewar/gang links/logistics/etc. ... pretend to be weak, and then wait for the "attacker" to get complacent and be in a mission boat, or hauler, or in something that can't hit your frigate well/at all (e.g. a BS, and orbit at 500))


Sorry, I was trolling, I am also not a fan of the concept of fair pvp.
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-05-20 10:07:13 UTC
It makes sense why CCP would allow it. It doesn't make sense why Concord doesn't do anything about it.

But I suppose it encourages building a trustworthy corporation.
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