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Combat Drone Operation Being Effectively Removed from the Game

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Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#61 - 2014-05-09 17:15:30 UTC
I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2014-05-09 17:18:59 UTC
That's fine but stop liking my posts, they were wrong.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#63 - 2014-05-09 17:19:49 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
stop liking my posts

never
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2014-05-09 17:24:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
No, only those that trained one skill. The other skill is being removed.
The two old skills are being replaced by three new ones. Your old levels decide what you'll have in the new skills. If you haven't trained anything, you don't get anything. This makes it completely unlike the learning skill case.

Quote:
No, it isn't.
Yes it is. No SP is lost. No training time is lost. At worst (if you have trained nothing) you come out the same as before. In all other cases, your old SP is transformed into new SP — in every case more than you had before.

I understand that you are horribly upset that some will gain more than others, but attempting to paint it as them giving out abilities to everyone is unintelligent and dishonest.

Quote:
It's not 1:1 though and that's the part
…if you've trained one or more of the old skills, and that's what makes it a good deal for everyone involved.

The drone skills are being replaced, but as long as you have a higher level in scout drone operation, combat drone skill level does not matter. Essentially if I begin training combat drones 4 and 5 now, that training is completely wasted and I can't get it back.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#65 - 2014-05-09 17:29:28 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Essentially if I begin training combat drones 4 and 5 now, that training is completely wasted and I can't get it back.
It's only wasted if you don't make use of the skills. That has nothing to do with the skill change.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2014-05-09 17:31:59 UTC
I apologize I missed page three when posting. (the only page in this thread with useful info).

Perhaps you can clarify this then. I believe you linked this chart.

http://eve.beyondreality.se/pics/Kronos/DroneSkillTransition.png

I currently have scout drone operation 5, and combat drone operation 3. What benefit do I get from training combat drone operation 5 prior to the skill changes?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#67 - 2014-05-09 17:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I currently have scout drone operation 5, and combat drone operation 3. What benefit do I get from training combat drone operation 5 prior to the skill changes?

You get the damage bonuses sooner — same benefit as it has had for the last decade.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-05-09 17:36:03 UTC
So you're saying that 10 days of training (rough estimate, I don't have a way to see actual times on me right now) is worth getting damage bonuses sooner? Why should someone with that skill at five end up with the same abilities as someone with it untrained?

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#69 - 2014-05-09 17:36:05 UTC
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.



I trained that skill abut 6 years ago. It was worth it for me then, and it was worth it for you when you trained it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#70 - 2014-05-09 17:37:52 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
So you're saying that 10 days of training (rough estimate, I don't have a way to see actual times on me right now) is worth getting damage bonuses sooner?
That's for you to decide based on how much time you spend fielding the smaller drones and how much you need that extra damage.
SpoonRECKLESS
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#71 - 2014-05-09 17:42:23 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Karen Avioras wrote:
But they are splitting it. Pretty sure you will be gaining SP if anything.

They're not splitting it. They're removing it.
Whether I gain or lose SP is meaningless.



Just have the skills require to get the new ones to 5 easy peasy.

Blue
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-05-09 17:42:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
So you're saying that 10 days of training (rough estimate, I don't have a way to see actual times on me right now) is worth getting damage bonuses sooner?
That's for you to decide based on how much time you spend fielding the smaller drones and how much you need that extra damage.

Tippia, I usually like your posts, but I really feel you're being purposely obtuse here. Please answer the part of my previous post that you omitted.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Why should someone with that skill at five end up with the same abilities as someone with it untrained?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#73 - 2014-05-09 17:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I really feel you're being purposely obtuse here. Please answer the part of my previous post that you omitted.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Why should someone with that skill at five end up with the same abilities as someone with it untrained?

Because it's the best solution to untying the knot of the current drone skill madness. Giving people minute extra abilities for the time they've spent is a better solution than taking them away.

This has already been answered, by the way — not just in this case but in every case where old skills have been replaced by new ones.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-05-09 18:07:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I really feel you're being purposely obtuse here. Please answer the part of my previous post that you omitted.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Why should someone with that skill at five end up with the same abilities as someone with it untrained?

Because it's the best solution to untying the knot of the current drone skill madness. Giving people minute extra abilities for the time they've spent is a better solution than taking them away.

This has already been answered, by the way — not just in this case but in every case where old skills have been replaced by new ones.

Hm, I still don't like it but this is the first response in this thread that actually makes sense. Thank you.

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Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2014-05-09 18:16:39 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
I'll use the below as an example as to why the skill is effectively being removed.

If you currently have:
Combat Drone Operation V + Scout Drone Operation V
you will get:
Drone Avionics V + Light Drone Operation V + Medium Drone Operation V

If you currently have:
Combat Drone Operation 0 + Scout Drone Operation V
you will get:
Drone Avionics V + Light Drone Operation V + Medium Drone Operation V

...

In all those examples, the combat drone skill is irrelevant and effectively being removed from the game.


You can replace Combat Drone Operation 0 to V with Scout Drone Operation 0 to V in the exact same chart and suddenly we've shown that the Scout Drone Operation skill is also effectively being removed from the game. So I guess if both SDO and CDO are being removed from the game, everyone should just get LDO and MDO at level V whether or not they have any training at all in SDO and CDO, right?

Oh wait, NO.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#76 - 2014-05-09 18:26:34 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.



I trained that skill abut 6 years ago. It was worth it for me then, and it was worth it for you when you trained it.

I only trained it b/c of the devblog, and I only trained it in the last few weeks.

Was not worth it at all.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#77 - 2014-05-09 18:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Organic Lager
This is super dumb.... Or i'm miss understanding something.

Scout drone op
Training time 1x
Pre req drones 1

Fully trained to 5 will give level 5 in the 3 new skills

Combat drone op
Training time 2x
Pre req drones 3

Fully trained to 5 will grant level 5 in 2 of the new skills and 0 in the third

Who the hell thought this was a fair and balanced idea?
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-05-09 19:06:58 UTC
Lena Lazair wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
I'll use the below as an example as to why the skill is effectively being removed.

If you currently have:
Combat Drone Operation V + Scout Drone Operation V
you will get:
Drone Avionics V + Light Drone Operation V + Medium Drone Operation V

If you currently have:
Combat Drone Operation 0 + Scout Drone Operation V
you will get:
Drone Avionics V + Light Drone Operation V + Medium Drone Operation V

...

In all those examples, the combat drone skill is irrelevant and effectively being removed from the game.


You can replace Combat Drone Operation 0 to V with Scout Drone Operation 0 to V in the exact same chart and suddenly we've shown that the Scout Drone Operation skill is also effectively being removed from the game. So I guess if both SDO and CDO are being removed from the game, everyone should just get LDO and MDO at level V whether or not they have any training at all in SDO and CDO, right?

Oh wait, NO.

Actually currently having combat drones 5 and scout drone operation untrained results in drone avonics 0. Tippia linked a chart that explains this on page 3.

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-05-09 19:21:57 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.

I trained that skill abut 6 years ago. It was worth it for me then, and it was worth it for you when you trained it.
Dunno if that's going to be the case really for anyone who didn't have it prior to the blog. 7 days is a notable chunk of 2 months and has a rather significant determination over what can be trained in that time. Any efficient training plan would probably forgo training level V at the time the clarification was posted.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#80 - 2014-05-09 20:54:40 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
I apologize I missed page three when posting. (the only page in this thread with useful info).

Perhaps you can clarify this then.

I have updated the OP with the exact quote from Fozzie at it seems people are having difficulty in understanding the OP and change fully. It is a little complicated and unusual transitional arrangement. But hopefully it should be clear now.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.