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I'm stubborn and want to fly my darned hulk, without exploding!

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Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#61 - 2014-05-09 15:34:28 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
its an exploit to deliberately spawn them up for protection, it is however not an exploit to deliberate move them away, which gankers know how to do.
It's not an exploit. Only recycling the character that you use for it is, but that's the same as with any gank character. CONCORD manipulation in itself is allowed, no matter if it's the miner or the ganker who does it.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#62 - 2014-05-09 15:36:21 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Permit tank it.


= Best Tank

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Ilovetomine
Doomheim
#63 - 2014-05-09 17:15:09 UTC
OP and I was asleep. I do do that, sometimes. Thank you for all of the suggestions, and do on. From permits, to unpopulated systems, etc.


I have an idea of a few ways to mitigate a tank, and agree with some of the above that was said. I'm not raging, and people are right, yes it is a fleet-based ship. But I honestly believe it should be able to have at least some sustain.

I actually have an alt wil logi skills, but she also has perfect hulk skills as well, which is destressing.

Mr.Epeen, I would love to see that fit for buffer tanking.

Basically my thoughts on surviving a gank, since I am always watching anyways, would be to watch d-scan, move away from the center of the belt, have my orca with large shield transporters, and buffer( or active, not sure which) tank the hulks. Both hulks do have the ability to use shield drones as well..

Seriously just trying to brainstorm how to fly a hulk, and live with moderate survivability, and max yield.


And before I get called only a carebear, I have seen a lot of combat, but mostly as a logistics pilot.. And sometimes I like watching star wars and cracking open some rocks.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#64 - 2014-05-09 17:58:52 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Unless I have a fleet of friends, I can't actually fly my Panther without getting ganked.
Unless I have a fleet of friends, my Cheetah is useless.
Unless I have a fleet of friends, my Orca is just an expensive killmail waiting to happen.
Unless I have a fleet of friends, my Falcon can't kill anything.
.


1) Nope. Stabs. And Cyno Alts.

2) Uhh... nope. Exploration.

3) Possibly, though its still a better freighter for tonnages less than 100,000

4) Confirming Flacon has no gun slots or drone bay

Well, the Hulk can theoretically tank enough to evade most ganks. Also I suppose I was referring to those ships' PvP roles, because I'm a PvP nut and bittervet.

The point stands, though. You either need friends or extra effort to take advantage of certain things in Eve. Hulks are one of those things.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Ilovetomine
Doomheim
#65 - 2014-05-09 18:10:20 UTC

Petrus, please tell me the fit youwould have to survive most ganks, yet outyield a mackinaw. This is what I am looking for. I also like your response to prior post
Pubbie Spy
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-05-09 18:10:51 UTC
Ilovetomine wrote:
Sigh. Not sure what the solution to flying my hulks in empire would be. Really seems like a hopeless cause.


Sigh. Not sure what the solution to flying officer fit Caldari Navy Ravens in empire would be. Really seems like a hopeless cause.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#67 - 2014-05-09 18:13:52 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:


The point stands, though. You either need friends or extra effort to take advantage of certain things in Eve. Hulks are one of those things.


Sorry was just picking nits :)

But yeah, Hulks.... for ISBoxers and real fleets of real corps, pretty useless for solos

OP should try a Skiff.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ilovetomine
Doomheim
#68 - 2014-05-09 18:15:33 UTC
Pubbie Spy wrote:
Ilovetomine wrote:
Sigh. Not sure what the solution to flying my hulks in empire would be. Really seems like a hopeless cause.


Sigh. Not sure what the solution to flying officer fit Caldari Navy Ravens in empire would be. Really seems like a hopeless cause.



fly a tengu.


Also, I love skiffs, the problem is the yield. Thats the main root of my problem. Especially with summer expansion, hulk will outyield mack/skiff by a lot.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2014-05-09 18:20:42 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Don't be Mackinaw Borg, fly procurer or skiff. Sweet 70k and 100k ehp respectively, nothing to sneeze at.



The answer to all your problems is quoted above. The rest is up to you.

As a side note..... Fitting yield over tank deserve a gank©


I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2014-05-09 18:21:00 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
As you're mining with an Orca, you don't need to tank a ganker till CONCORD arrives. You only have to tank him long enough as it takes you to switch ships. Here is what you do:

Prerequisites:

  • make sure you only have mining crystals in your Hulk's cargo bay. Put anything else that you want to carry with you into the Orca's fleet hangar
  • set your drones to passive. You can't switch ships at an Orca with a weapon's timer
  • put a brick tanked ship into the Orca's ship mainenance bay for each miner. I use Procurers for this (>100k EHP with fleet boosts) as they are small and cheap
  • always stay within 2500m range of the Orca
  • always have the Orca's ship maintenace bay opened with your mining chars to safe time
  • only two miners per Orca as it can only carry two Hulks

If a gank goes down:

  1. stop your mining lasers
  2. if you use mining drones: abandon them
  3. jettison the ore from your Hulk's ore hangar
  4. right click your Procurer in the Orca's ship maintenance bay and click "Board Ship from Bay"
  5. activate and overheat all tank modules on the Procurer
  6. optional: make fun of the ganker in local

Explanation: You can only store a ship in an Orca's ship maintenance bay if you're within 2500m range and if the hangars are either empty or only contain ammo (mining crystals count as ammo). Always jettison the ore, don't put it in the Orca's fleet hangar: the fleet hangar could be nearly full. You can pick up the ore after the gank is over. If you're using mining drones: always abandon them because if you're unlucky they're on their way back and put their mined ore into the Hulk's ore hangar right after you have jettisoned your ore. With a little bit of practice all of this can be done before the ganker even starts shooting. Also: don't forget to tank your Orca. It's your life safer (DC II and Bulkheads are a must these days)!


Are you sure you are not a New Order representative?

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#71 - 2014-05-09 18:24:48 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
its an exploit to deliberately spawn them up for protection, it is however not an exploit to deliberate move them away, which gankers know how to do.
It's not an exploit.


Yeah, it is. I tried to find you a dev post but failed - I've definitely seen a post somewhat recently.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#72 - 2014-05-09 18:31:21 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
its an exploit to deliberately spawn them up for protection, it is however not an exploit to deliberate move them away, which gankers know how to do.
It's not an exploit.


Yeah, it is. I tried to find you a dev post but failed - I've definitely seen a post somewhat recently.


Agreed. I was under the impression it WASNT and exploit but was corrected recently by what I suspect was the same thing you saw

In short, drawing CONCORD (specifically CONCORD) away IS an exploit and is not sanctioned by CCP

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ilovetomine
Doomheim
#73 - 2014-05-09 18:36:55 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
As you're mining with an Orca, you don't need to tank a ganker till CONCORD arrives. You only have to tank him long enough as it takes you to switch ships. Here is what you do:

Prerequisites:

  • make sure you only have mining crystals in your Hulk's cargo bay. Put anything else that you want to carry with you into the Orca's fleet hangar
  • set your drones to passive. You can't switch ships at an Orca with a weapon's timer
  • put a brick tanked ship into the Orca's ship mainenance bay for each miner. I use Procurers for this (>100k EHP with fleet boosts) as they are small and cheap
  • always stay within 2500m range of the Orca
  • always have the Orca's ship maintenace bay opened with your mining chars to safe time
  • only two miners per Orca as it can only carry two Hulks

If a gank goes down:

  1. stop your mining lasers
  2. if you use mining drones: abandon them
  3. jettison the ore from your Hulk's ore hangar
  4. right click your Procurer in the Orca's ship maintenance bay and click "Board Ship from Bay"
  5. activate and overheat all tank modules on the Procurer
  6. optional: make fun of the ganker in local

Explanation: You can only store a ship in an Orca's ship maintenance bay if you're within 2500m range and if the hangars are either empty or only contain ammo (mining crystals count as ammo). Always jettison the ore, don't put it in the Orca's fleet hangar: the fleet hangar could be nearly full. You can pick up the ore after the gank is over. If you're using mining drones: always abandon them because if you're unlucky they're on their way back and put their mined ore into the Hulk's ore hangar right after you have jettisoned your ore. With a little bit of practice all of this can be done before the ganker even starts shooting. Also: don't forget to tank your Orca. It's your life safer (DC II and Bulkheads are a must these days)!




Thank you for this thoughtful post. I did not think about switching ships out between the orca/miner. This is a good idea and I think that might be a valid solution


The only thing I would be worried about is if the orca itself was bumped away. But in the even that something with ramming speed is in the belt, its intentions are obvious..

Thank you for this post and I greatly appreciate your thoughts on this.

I am hoping for some relief for a hulk, or a solution short of a 4th alt with logi skills.
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#74 - 2014-05-09 19:26:06 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
its an exploit to deliberately spawn them up for protection, it is however not an exploit to deliberate move them away, which gankers know how to do.
It's not an exploit.


Yeah, it is. I tried to find you a dev post but failed - I've definitely seen a post somewhat recently.

Here is one:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Ah I see the misunderstanding; I was attempting to state that if you use an alt for committing illegal acts (illegal in the sense that CONCORD kicks your ass for it) and then recycle them as a method to avoid the repercussions, you are committing an exploit. It's the avoidance of these penalties that is the problem.

Also of notice is the post of GM Grimmi, Lead Game Master, directly below:
GM Grimmi wrote:
Our stance towards recycling "disposable alts" for purposes such as suicide ganking or summoning CONCORD for bodyguard duty is that it is an exploit, clear and simple. Using "disposable ships" is not seen as an exploit since all ships ARE disposable, when properly insured.

Emphasis is mine. In other words: Summoning CONCORD at your belt is not a problem. The problem is avoiding security status penalties by biomassing characters and creating others to do the job. If you don't biomass your CONCORD caller with a negative sec status, all is fine. If you want to use that char slot for a new char, you have to pay for it, either with time or ISK, which is also fine in my book.

I've seen a lot of rumor mongering about this topic but these are the only official statements about this topic that I could find. Show me anything more recent by an official spokesperson that overrules this position and I'll gladly change my mind.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#75 - 2014-05-09 19:28:17 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
In other words: Summoning CONCORD at your belt is not a problem. The problem is avoiding security status penalties by biomassing characters and creating others to do the job. If you don't biomass your CONCORD caller with a negative sec status, all is fine. If you want to use that char slot for a new char, you have to pay for it, either with time or ISK, which is also fine in my book.

I've seen a lot of rumor mongering about this topic but these are the only official statements about this topic that I could find. Show me anything more recent by an official spokesperson that overrules this position and I'll gladly change my mind.


Oh!

Wait...

So its not an exploit if I do it myself and not use my alts?

Hmm Id be VERY interested to see more if you do find it.

Thanks for finding these btw

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#76 - 2014-05-09 19:44:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Flynt
Ramona McCandless wrote:
So its not an exploit if I do it myself and not use my alts?

Right but you can even use your alts if you don't biomass them later in order to avoid the penalties that come from the criminal act (negative sec status and I'd suppose active killrights also count towards that these days).

Edit: "Here is one:" in my above post is actually a link that leads to the thread that discusses exactly this. The quoted posts are taken from it.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#77 - 2014-05-09 19:47:06 UTC
You have choices to make, where before it was a no brainer... which situation do you think provides more interesting game play? Smile

I'm pretty sure this thread will be forwarded to Fozzie and Rise with a big stamp on it that says "Mission Accomplished".

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#78 - 2014-05-09 19:47:34 UTC
Ilovetomine wrote:
Sigh. Not sure what the solution to flying my hulks in empire would be. Really seems like a hopeless cause.


The problem here is not tank or ship type; it's where you're flying it.

If you fly it in a system or area that's prone to gankers, then you'll have problems. Get smart and relocate to an area which see none or very few such ganks. They're out there, you just need to use the tools that exist to find them (killboards, dotlan, so on)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#79 - 2014-05-09 19:57:35 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
So its not an exploit if I do it myself and not use my alts?

Right but you can even use your alts if you don't biomass them later in order to avoid the penalties that come from the criminal act (negative sec status and I'd suppose active killrights also count towards that these days).

Edit: "Here is one:" in my above post is actually a link that leads to the thread that discusses exactly this. The quoted posts are taken from it.


Sweet Twisted

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Miichael Epic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-05-09 20:16:01 UTC
Nice try.

I've checked your kills. You're a PVP combat pilot. You've ganked a handful of mining barges and rookie ships (I mean seriously the Velator is a joke, you sneeze on that sum'b!tch and it explodes)

I feel like you're attempting to get people to tell you THEIR Hulk fittings so YOU can build a ganking ship to beat them.

So I'll keep MY God Mode Hulk fitting to myself lol