Warfare & Tactics

Is this a legal target, or are you suicide ganking them??

I kind of had the impression you were suicide ganking them, which complicates things enormously. If that's the case, please state so, as the fits that will work are very different.

If you can attack them legally, 1 BB and 3 425 autocannon, dual neut shield canes will give them a very bad day. Canes allow you to use the most appropriate damage type (since they will probably be tanked for the rates), put out significant dps (especially with damage mods in the lows), are fast, and their neuts will give the target a very hard time. The BB makes it so they can't fire back, meaning the canes can focus on gank, with little need for a tank.

If you are suicide ganking them, then you need to have a setup where all ships can open fire simultaneously, and bring down the target within 10-20 seconds. Brutixes are a favorite because of their extremely high dps, but be weary of serpentis or guerista mission runners. Realistically, to get 4 ships on top of the enemy and bring it down, you need them to be sitting still where you can warp in on top of them. I would imagine 4 BC's (Canes, Brutix, Harby, or Drake) would do a decent job, and the best ships to use depends on your target's tank.

Hah.. why? What are you going to do, cry at us from high-sec? Maybe wardec and camp Jita 4-4?

For the most part yeah, but the really blingy ships will often be able to spew considerable amounts of DPS on you and then it becomes a DPS race. Face it, the plated Cane is a big fat pig and missile boats can put a hurt on it. Not saying you're wrong, just adding a point of clarity.

@Gizznitt - Sorry for the confusion before. I was under the impression that since stealing from a can granted aggro to the "victim's" entire corp, that it worked the same way when a corpie shot at someone for flipping their can. I was going to recruit a bunch of noob probing pilots/ninja salvagers for best bait and roll in to finish off missioners who attack them. But I was wrong. Only the one shot at, and not his corpies, get kill rights. :( So I am trying my best to figure out the best way for a 2-ship gang to collect high-sec missioner KMs.

So now my focus has changed to match the actual game mechanics. The question then becomes how to best kill high-sec L4 mission runners with 1 or 2 pilots. And I love the ideas I'm getting here.

@Solomar - Thanks for the continued input. Suddenly Ninjas is definitely an authority on this subject.

@Sivor - Very VERY nice kb and great tactics. I think we're going to give it a shot. Thank you very much for sharing.

@Confused carebear questions:

Why target high-sec missioning ships instead of experienced, prepared, trained, rich, organized groups? Because I am not experienced, trained, rich, nor part of a group. Frankly I am a lot more evenly matched against lone L4 missioners as an opponent than against mobs of bitter vets.

Why ninja loot baiting? A couple reasons. 1) When I was only weeks into the game I did some ninja salvage. Of course since then I've also run L4 missions. So I understand some of the mechanics involved already, and am building on that base. Also, they blew me up a few times for looting, which both confirms that they'll fall for good bait and provides a tad of of moral justification for my plans. 2) It allows me to control the variables involved, making it possible even with my limited experience and pvp knowledge.

Why not go to low sec or 0.0? I will eventually. I need to learn the particulars of every single possible pvp ship, not to mention their various combinations. If I joined a pvp corp at this point I'd end up relying on an FC to walk me through complex combat scenarios with many fast-changing variables. Meh. I'd rather play the game, have fun, and learn these things gradually rather than cram the data like it's for a final exam.

Why not join faction warfare? A couple reasons. 1) I heard it was very broken. 2) For now I want to work alone or with a couple partners at most.

tl;dr Why pick on lone carebear missioners? Cause I'm mostly a lone carebear missioner (with a buddy who also plays sometimes). I'll kill my peers until it gets boring. Do I really need to mention that if this upsets you, I truly don't care?

I don't want to live in a hole. I don't want to do PI. I don't want to feel obligated to do ops on someone else's schedule. Some day, when I run out of fun things I can do solo I may try joining a corp.

I just want to play the game at my own pace, at my own skill level, and learn as I go.

Major difference between battling it out with a mission runner, or ganking him.

To draw the mission runner into a fight, a lot of things have to go right for your fleet. One scenario: First thing is to get him to fire once you’ve stolen something from him-good luck with that one. The ship in his mission space then has to engage the mission runner and tackle him. Then the fleet, who are all part of the same corp, warps in, neuts, jams, and finishes him off. So the ships required can vary, like what has been posted so far.

To gank the mission runner, a lot of things also must go right, in a very short amount of time. The Inf1dels were very good at this, just to mention one group. (trust me on this one). A 2-4man fleet cannot gank a L4 mission runner.

Basically a scout picks out a target- a nice juicy mission runner, scans him down, and warps into his mission. The scout moves in close. On command, the fleet warps to the scout, locks target, and destroys the mission runner. This is done before Concord jumps in.
In this type of ganking it would be have to have several BS’s. For example: torp Raven, all BCU’s in the lows, 2 neuts, sensor boosters and a disruptor , overheat everything. With about 5-7 BS’s, the mission runner lasts about 10-15s. (My 2.1B Navy Scorp went down to them well over a year ago).

At that time, the gankers really didn’t lose much as their ships were insured. I think some of this has now changed.

A few BC’s will not gank him, but please go ahead and try it. (hehehe)

-Kirst

Wtf is wrong with people these days. I mean, did anybody even bother to read the thread before sperging?

OP is not suicide ganking. (hehehehehehehehe)

I can find no evidence of your corp killing anything, anywhere at anytime.

I wish I had the mechanics straight in my head before asking my question. Would have avoided a lot of confusion.

Anyway, what I'd love to do is a two-ship team, 1 logi, 1 bait/gank ship.

For bait:
A T2 frig just doesn't seem like believable bait to me. It seems like many missioners would shy away from the T2 of it. A T1 frig would work, but then you end up giving him an opportunity to dock up while you change to a kill ship. A T1 destroyer would make great bait too because that's what most "harmless" non-baiting ninjas would fly. But it can't stand up to the DPS, not even with logi on the field before the bait loots. Not to mention 2 ships are scarier than 1. That brings us to T1 cruiser bait. Most harmless ninjas would use a destroyer, but I think it's more believable than a T2 frig. The question is:

Can any T1 cruiser accomplish the following tasks, assuming it has logi support:

1) Point
2) Survive
3) Beat the tank

I was thinking something along the lines of neuts to beat the tank and just enough DPS to kill the target once the tank is down, even if that takes a few minutes. Of course it has to stay alive long enough for logi to arrive on grid. Shield/armor tank, speed tank, ECM?

For logi:
A single T2 logi ship or a dual T1 logi combo chain, ala Incursion

I know it's not possible to build a combo that can handle all L4 mission ships, but even if it could be purpose built to kill one of the more common ones, that would work.

p.s. - WTF is with the forums eating my replies and kicking me back to a reply screen? Is it a timeout because I'm taking too long to hit post after starting? I tend to work on forum replies between work tasks, so it takes a while.

Yeah, its so dismal i made 1 billion in a month. i popped two Navy megas in two days in a Cyclone. You are obviously doing it wrong; ransoms make up half your ISK and their shiny faction items make up the other half.

To be honest, you don't need more than a Cyclone with 5 guns, 3 neuts, a buffer tank and an AB (though, these days, MWD would work for getting in range). Most missioners will use arty, beams, rails or cruise. if you can't tank a cruise raven long enough to neut his tank off and kill him, ur doin' it wrong.

Suddenly ninjas gets results because they put in the effort and have an Orca support, but Khanh'rhh is also right. You will NOT get a missioner to easily agggro more than one of you at a time, so just bring a scrub cruiser with neuts and DPS, and back it up with a couple of T1 logi cruisers. hell, if you know what the guy is flying, loot in a BB and fit 4 racial jams, a shield tank of some kind (rigs ftw) and a couple of ospreys.

Once you've neuted his active tank off, even pitiful DPS will kill him eventually.

For the nulltards, brosec roamers and hisec carebears, try w-space you sissies.

4 hurricanes with ecm drones, neuts, and points. if you lose your shields warp off n come back