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Recruitment and API keys
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Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#81 - 2014-05-10 17:13:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Corvald Tyrska wrote:
I would give out most of my API but doubt that I would give access to my Assets on my main. Their is no legitimate reason to want that info and frankly it is none of the corp's business what I have in my hangars. If they really want to try and build it up from Journal and Wallet info they are welcome to try but there will be plenty missing.

There's plenty of reasons to want this.

I make the same point: if you can't trust the corp's recruiter to know you have a Drake parked in Nomaa, then don't join the corp. There are very legit reasons to need to see your assets.


Never fiddled much with the API but how does it handle fitted modules?

The ship itself is a container, and everything fitted to it, or in the cargo, is listed.

Primarily, it's usually very obvious even if everything else looks legit to see someone is a purpose-made alt if you can see their skills and assets.

If the only thing your prospective corp member owns is a Gnosis with 4 warp scramblers, chances are the guy doesn't have honourable intentions. If he has no hostile corp history, but he for some reason has rookie ships parked in hostile stations fit with a cyno, chances are he's an alt being re-used for another purpose.
Seeing assets is very useful, even in edge cases where it's not this clear-cut.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2014-05-10 17:20:45 UTC
Debyl Vuld wrote:
''I need to give away all my information to a great leader so they can protect me because I'm not capable of protecting myself''

-eve GD


Rock, on NPC Corp alt.
Adaris
#83 - 2014-05-10 17:57:00 UTC
Handing over your full API means the terrorists win. Big smile

 
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#84 - 2014-05-10 20:23:17 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
CompleteFailure wrote:
It merely provides in-game information. People want this info to prevent spies, awoxers, etc. They're not just asking because they're curious or nosy, they're protecting their membership.


Want in on a secret?

It doesn't work.


Not empty quoting.








This. At most it represents a filter for the dilettantes, but they're not that dangerous to begin with. Anyone who's out to do some real damage is going to show up with a squeaky clean API.


and be prepared to spend time gaining trust
and improved access rights




it's not like it's exactly hard to get an extra 'clean' account
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#85 - 2014-05-10 22:25:04 UTC
Just because you can't stop all forms of spying and espionage doesn't mean you shouldn't implement procedures that prevent most of it.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#86 - 2014-05-11 15:11:29 UTC
Debyl Vuld wrote:
So I've been gone a while, and in my recent return to eve I've discovered that if you are looking for a corp, every single corp you want to join now needs a full API key from you - ie: a backdoor into your account, all your mails, your finances, your implants and everything about you contained within.

When did it become normal to volunteer that kind of information to some neckbeard in the videogame? When you refuse to give it on principle people treat you like you have two heads, like you're hiding something. It seems people cannot comprehend that you don't want to volunteer a backdoor into your account to people you don't know any more than those people want to let you in without knowing a little more about you.

Even when I offer a kills-only API to show I don't kill corp mates, I'm still told to gtfo like I were some pariah. I find it really frustrating that this is now the norm and there doesn't seem to be much way around it. Even with references, 90 mil sp, FC ability, 9 mil sp in leadership etc. even small corps with 10 guys have told me to get lost because I would not give more than a kills-only API.

I wonder if CCP foresaw this when they expanded the API function a few years ago. That it is now the norm to bare all to strangers just to join their space-guild.


they just want to feel important because they are not... corps that request an API key are full of douchebags who are unable to make judgement based on their gut feeling... its just a bunch of kids without experience, thats why they are so paranoid and scared of strangers

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#87 - 2014-05-11 15:50:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Harry Forever wrote:
they just want to feel important because they are not... corps that request an API key are full of douchebags who are unable to make judgement based on their gut feeling
Unnecessary douchebag comment aside, gut feelings are what gets your corp robbed blind and disbanded. Properly run corporations in Eve are no different from properly run corporations in the real world, they have assets to protect and the recruitment process is a way doing that by vetting potential "employees".

Quote:
... its just a bunch of kids without experience, thats why they are so paranoid and scared of strangers
Experience is why they ask for an API key, not lack of it. Not asking for one is naive at best.

A request for an API key is only a little different from asking for a CV/ résumé, references or running a credit/ criminal records check on potential employees, all of which are very common in real life recruitment. The difference being that in Eve we have aliases that also get checked out.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lady Areola Fappington
#88 - 2014-05-11 16:25:16 UTC
API keys keep honest people honest. It'll keep a good chunk of the casual AWOXers and thieves out of your corp, but anyone dedicated to infiltrating you will do so.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-05-11 16:51:28 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
they just want to feel important because they are not... corps that request an API key are full of douchebags who are unable to make judgement based on their gut feeling
Unnecessary douchebag comment aside, gut feelings are what gets your corp robbed blind and disbanded. Properly run corporations in Eve are no different from properly run corporations in the real world, they have assets to protect and the recruitment process is a way doing that by vetting potential "employees".

Quote:
... its just a bunch of kids without experience, thats why they are so paranoid and scared of strangers
Experience is why they ask for an API key, not lack of it. Not asking for one is naive at best.

A request for an API key is only a little different from asking for a CV/ résumé, references or running a credit/ criminal records check on potential employees, all of which are very common in real life recruitment. The difference being that in Eve we have aliases that also get checked out.

While I understand why a full API key is a common request, it does raise the bar on what players have to do in order to even form a basic corp and relies heavily on yet another out of game 3rd party tool one must have in order to just play the game.

Again, I do understand why it is common practice these says to demand the full API, it is also rather sad this is what players must do just to play a game. Flame me if you want, but I am not a fan of more and more hurdles players must jump over before they can begin to enjoy the game with other capsuleers in a corporation. Especially in high sec where any new group who decides to branch out and look beyond just blitzing missions in a NPC is preyed upon by legions of griefers.

I'm also not advocating turning the game into some meaningless theme park, but there has to be another way.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2014-05-11 16:53:45 UTC
You could technically check API data entirely with the in-game browser, or write your own XML parser.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#91 - 2014-05-11 17:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Marlona Sky wrote:
While I understand why a full API key is a common request, it does raise the bar on what players have to do in order to even form a basic corp and relies heavily on yet another out of game 3rd party tool one must have in order to just play the game.

Again, I do understand why it is common practice these says to demand the full API, it is also rather sad this is what players must do just to play a game. Flame me if you want, but I am not a fan of more and more hurdles players must jump over before they can begin to enjoy the game with other capsuleers in a corporation. Especially in high sec where any new group who decides to branch out and look beyond just blitzing missions in a NPC is preyed upon by legions of griefers.

I'm also not advocating turning the game into some meaningless theme park, but there has to be another way.
I agree that the recruitment process is convoluted, but given the nature of the game and the freedoms it offers for general fuckery an API check is currently the first line of defence.

Some of the problem is the corporation interface, which should be a defence against fuckery in itself, something it fails miserably at. Roles are needlessly complicated and arcane, the whole corp interface needs to be streamlined or at least made easier to understand; currently it results in naive corps assigning asset sensitive roles to all and sundry, because the interface is, to be blunt, crap, especially when it relates to POS management and corporate hangar roles.

Asking for API keys is making the best of what we've got, but like a lock they only keep the honest folk honest.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2014-05-11 17:24:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You could technically check API data entirely with the in-game browser, or write your own XML parser.

Yeah I understand that. But is this information new players and corporations have? There is no where in the game that tells them this. It is one of those either you know or you don't.

We need new blood in the game and there is things like this that, while necessary due to garbage corporation UI or whatever, all it does is make players quit or just as bad; stay in a NPC and just stay isolated farming missions and not really experiencing the rest of the game.

I'm inclined to agree that agression against a corp member should be treated just like the rest of the crime watch system just to allow new blood a chance to form corporations and get to the rest of the game. Low sec, null and wormhole space. You can still do your Awoxing out there, but right now I believe it kills vastly more potential future content than it creates now.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
While I understand why a full API key is a common request, it does raise the bar on what players have to do in order to even form a basic corp and relies heavily on yet another out of game 3rd party tool one must have in order to just play the game.

Again, I do understand why it is common practice these says to demand the full API, it is also rather sad this is what players must do just to play a game. Flame me if you want, but I am not a fan of more and more hurdles players must jump over before they can begin to enjoy the game with other capsuleers in a corporation. Especially in high sec where any new group who decides to branch out and look beyond just blitzing missions in a NPC is preyed upon by legions of griefers.

I'm also not advocating turning the game into some meaningless theme park, but there has to be another way.
I agree that the recruitment process is convoluted, but given the nature of the game and the freedoms it offers for general fuckery an API check is currently a first line of defence.

Some of the problem is the corporation interface, which should be a defence against fuckery in itself, something which it fails miserably at. Roles are needlessly complicated and arcane, the whole corp interface need to be streamlined or at least made easier to understand; currently it results in naive corps assigning asset sensitive roles to all and sundry, because the interface is, to be blunt, crap, especially when it relates to POS management and corporate hangars.

Asking for API keys is making the best of what we've got, but like a lock they only keep the honest folk honest.


Agreed. Right now there might be one legitimate player looking for a corporation for every twenty Awoxers stubbling over each other looking for that next Retriever kill. Ugh
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#93 - 2014-05-11 17:33:09 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

We need new blood in the game and there is things like this that, while necessary due to garbage corporation UI or whatever, all it does is make players quit or just as bad; stay in a NPC and just stay isolated farming missions and not really experiencing the rest of the game.


Like AWOXing and infiltration Lol

Only j/k

Not really

Really

Is really DOLAN

Wait, what are we talking about again?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2014-05-11 17:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Debyl Vuld wrote:
It seems people cannot comprehend that you don't want to volunteer a backdoor into your account to people you don't know any more than those people want to let you in without knowing a little more about you.


a) API key does jack **** beyond providing info.

b) while this is a RL comparision, many employers already do some sort of similar thing, by requesting criminal records, ongoing judicial processes on where you are somehow involved, etc.

They don't care about your personal life, they just want to know if they are hiring a regular, honest Joe, or a thieving scumbag Steve (apologies to every honest, hardworking Steve out there)




I do admit that there's work to be done in this field tho.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#95 - 2014-05-11 21:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
they just want to feel important because they are not... corps that request an API key are full of douchebags who are unable to make judgement based on their gut feeling
Unnecessary douchebag comment aside, gut feelings are what gets your corp robbed blind and disbanded. Properly run corporations in Eve are no different from properly run corporations in the real world, they have assets to protect and the recruitment process is a way doing that by vetting potential "employees".

Quote:
... its just a bunch of kids without experience, thats why they are so paranoid and scared of strangers
Experience is why they ask for an API key, not lack of it. Not asking for one is naive at best.

A request for an API key is only a little different from asking for a CV/ résumé, references or running a credit/ criminal records check on potential employees, all of which are very common in real life recruitment. The difference being that in Eve we have aliases that also get checked out.


I hired people in real life, just by talking to them... guys like you just look at the exams, and don't know ****... you got no clue about what is important, you are blind... and you get blindfolded by your own kind

I don't need your API to know that you are useless

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#96 - 2014-05-11 21:23:10 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:


I hired people in real life, just by talking to them... guys like you just look at the exams, and don't know ****... you got no clue about what is important, you are blind...


And when the company audit comes along.....

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/be/d8/0d/bed80d51004c552e4134a5769c23e9be.jpg

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
rswfire
#97 - 2014-05-11 21:25:38 UTC
Debyl Vuld wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
So what are you trying to hide, OP?


I want to hide my trading methods, my shiptoasting alts, my private eve-mails to my friends in-game and my assets. And there's nothing wrong with that.


Join BNI or something. >.>

Or don't join a corp at all. I don't see the problem here.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-05-11 21:26:38 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:


I hired people in real life, just by talking to them... guys like you just look at the exams, and don't know ****... you got no clue about what is important, you are blind...


And when the company audit comes along.....

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/be/d8/0d/bed80d51004c552e4134a5769c23e9be.jpg

well, truth to be told, basing everybody's life with a simple exam is sometimes a bit too much.


but then again, when you go to an hospital, you want a doctor, and not a quack.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#99 - 2014-05-11 21:32:39 UTC
This thing is still going?

@OP as I've said before, you can avoid giving your API out and making your own corporation. You can't come here demanding a change on the way we recruit because you are not happy with it, and without providing a better alternative.

I'll say it again. If you can't trust your potential corpmates to check your API, you are either hiding something, or not to be trusted.

I've recruited before, and every time I was denied an API, I simply moved on. It kept most of the spais out. It also kept the troublesome players out. You know what I mean, the kind where a CTA goes out, and they skip the fleet to go hunt rats. The kind that are told to be deployed on x system, and the chose to not log in for the week. The kind that get all pissy and bent out of shape when tax is changed to 100% when CTAs are in order, because they wouldn't comply to CTAs in the first place. And finally, the kind that spam your inbox with hatemail, because you kicked them out of corp and now their assets are stuck in your sov holding alliance station. (this particular player "pulled a fast one" and deleted his API after I checked it, but I let him stay anyway, beneffit of dobut and all)

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Marsha Mallow
#100 - 2014-05-11 21:55:22 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Yeah I understand that. But is this information new players and corporations have? There is no where in the game that tells them this. It is one of those either you know or you don't.

We need new blood in the game and there is things like this that, while necessary due to garbage corporation UI or whatever, all it does is make players quit or just as bad; stay in a NPC and just stay isolated farming missions and not really experiencing the rest of the game.

I'm not sure new players are the ones who protest handing out API keys. Any half decent recruiter can talk them through the process and explain what it means. If they've found eve-mon and eveboard they usually have some awareness that the API exists - and if not its a useful conversation to have. The easiest targets for quick slam-dunk robbery/awox are starter corps who don't ask for API keys, which suggests it works as a preventative measure a lot of the time.

It's typically nullsec entities with a lot of supers who request persistent full APIs. Which really annoys me tbh. Don't give me roles if you can't trust me, I'd rather be without them anyway. When corps demand continuous access to my asset list, contacts and mails I expect a bloody good reason. It smacks of incompetence and cynicism that they need to monitor assets in case of theft - and it looks in some ways like a workaround because they can't/aren't able to manage roles and members properly. Although as Jonah remarked the corp interface and role management is so terrible it's not surprising.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day