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25% dps drop for Gecko in Kronos

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#241 - 2014-05-09 22:56:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Again bringing up another comparable scenario, would nerfing controlled bursts not be a nerf to lasers or hybrids?

no, you just clearly said it's a nerf to controlled bursts.
hopefully your example illustrates to you why the gecko isn't being nerfed.

No, it doesn't because every laser and hybrid would be changing as a result, and that change would be quantifiable as positive or negative, and consequently be labelled as a buff or nerf.

Unless of course nerf is explicitly limited to the items base stats, something you seem very insistent upon despite refusing to own up to it and further saying that there is not actual definition, thus making your claim actually unprovable.

no, none of the hybrids or lasers are changing.
you said a change to controlled bursts, you didn't mention any changes to lasers or hybrids.

So if controlled bursts changes, you are saying there will be no corresponding change in the performance of the items which the skill effects? That lasers and hybrids will take the same amount of cap to fire as they did prior to the change for players, and that this will have no affect on their desirability?

Also, you are still using the definition of nerf as if it is limited to base stats, does that mean you have decided it is defined, or are you not concerned with that lack of consistency?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#242 - 2014-05-09 22:57:15 UTC
Fact: -25% DPS at DI 5.
Doesn't matter what you call it, the discussion should be the same anyway.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#243 - 2014-05-09 22:58:10 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So if controlled bursts changes, you are saying there will be no corresponding change in the performance of the items which the skill effects? That lasers and hybrids will take the same amount of cap to fire as they did prior to the change for players, and that this will have no affect on their desirability?


no, i'm just telling you lasers and hybrids aren't getting nerfed (because that was your question).
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2014-05-09 22:59:26 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So if controlled bursts changes, you are saying there will be no corresponding change in the performance of the items which the skill effects? That lasers and hybrids will take the same amount of cap to fire as they did prior to the change for players, and that this will have no affect on their desirability?


no, i'm just telling you lasers and hybrids aren't getting nerfed (because that was your question).

So you have decided that a nerf is defined by the base stats, correct?
Dave Stark
#245 - 2014-05-09 23:00:57 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So if controlled bursts changes, you are saying there will be no corresponding change in the performance of the items which the skill effects? That lasers and hybrids will take the same amount of cap to fire as they did prior to the change for players, and that this will have no affect on their desirability?


no, i'm just telling you lasers and hybrids aren't getting nerfed (because that was your question).

So you have decided that a nerf is defined by the base stats, correct?


no, i'm just pointing out a nerf doesn't happen when things don't change.
i've been doing it for about 10 pages now. don't know why you're having such trouble with basic english.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#246 - 2014-05-09 23:01:11 UTC
Today's continuing thread discussion brought to you by the letters "F", "M" and "L"...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#247 - 2014-05-09 23:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
We'd been repeating the same arguments for several pages by the time I left this thread, and several pages later you're still slinging the same **** back and forth.
Most people would have recognized more quickly than I did that there's no agreement to be reached here. It's just not going to happen. But you two are still going at it.

I know I'm just as responsible for what's happened here as anyone else but dear god please just let it rest already.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2014-05-09 23:04:26 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So if controlled bursts changes, you are saying there will be no corresponding change in the performance of the items which the skill effects? That lasers and hybrids will take the same amount of cap to fire as they did prior to the change for players, and that this will have no affect on their desirability?


no, i'm just telling you lasers and hybrids aren't getting nerfed (because that was your question).

So you have decided that a nerf is defined by the base stats, correct?


no, i'm just pointing out a nerf doesn't happen when things don't change.
i've been doing it for about 10 pages now. don't know why you're having such trouble with basic english.

Things are changing, you have admitted so, you keep telling me to go back and read a blog that says they are, then you tell me to read a thread where those changes are reiterated. but for some reason you have disassociated those changes with the items they directly affect. That and refused to provide any logic or reasoning for doing so.

So let me ask again, how do you define a nerf or buff?
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#249 - 2014-05-09 23:04:47 UTC
This thread is still going? Shocked
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#250 - 2014-05-09 23:06:17 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
This thread is still going? Shocked

Yup.

I just want his definition of the words buff and nerf at this point.
He won't state it and won't confirm it if I try to deduce it.
Dave Stark
#251 - 2014-05-09 23:07:29 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So if controlled bursts changes, you are saying there will be no corresponding change in the performance of the items which the skill effects? That lasers and hybrids will take the same amount of cap to fire as they did prior to the change for players, and that this will have no affect on their desirability?


no, i'm just telling you lasers and hybrids aren't getting nerfed (because that was your question).

So you have decided that a nerf is defined by the base stats, correct?


no, i'm just pointing out a nerf doesn't happen when things don't change.
i've been doing it for about 10 pages now. don't know why you're having such trouble with basic english.

Things are changing, you have admitted so, you keep telling me to go back and read a blog that says they are, then you tell me to read a thread where those changes are reiterated. but for some reason you have disassociated those changes with the items they directly affect. That and refused to provide any logic or reasoning for doing so.

So let me ask again, how do you define a nerf or buff?


yes things are changing; the gecko isn't one of those things.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2014-05-09 23:10:33 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Things are changing, you have admitted so, you keep telling me to go back and read a blog that says they are, then you tell me to read a thread where those changes are reiterated. but for some reason you have disassociated those changes with the items they directly affect. That and refused to provide any logic or reasoning for doing so.

So let me ask again, how do you define a nerf or buff?


yes things are changing; the gecko isn't one of those things.

But something affecting the gecko is changing. Why do you see it appropriate to separate the item from the factors effecting it?
Dave Stark
#253 - 2014-05-09 23:12:18 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Things are changing, you have admitted so, you keep telling me to go back and read a blog that says they are, then you tell me to read a thread where those changes are reiterated. but for some reason you have disassociated those changes with the items they directly affect. That and refused to provide any logic or reasoning for doing so.

So let me ask again, how do you define a nerf or buff?


yes things are changing; the gecko isn't one of those things.

But something affecting the gecko is changing. Why do you see it appropriate to separate the item from the factors effecting it?

because it doesn't matter if they affect each other, one is being nerfed one is not. (hint: the one not being nerfed is the gecko)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2014-05-09 23:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Things are changing, you have admitted so, you keep telling me to go back and read a blog that says they are, then you tell me to read a thread where those changes are reiterated. but for some reason you have disassociated those changes with the items they directly affect. That and refused to provide any logic or reasoning for doing so.

So let me ask again, how do you define a nerf or buff?


yes things are changing; the gecko isn't one of those things.

But something affecting the gecko is changing. Why do you see it appropriate to separate the item from the factors effecting it?

because it doesn't matter if they affect each other, one is being nerfed one is not. (hint: the one not being nerfed is the gecko)
So what you are saying is that your concept of a nerf is only related to individual numbers and has no bearing on the actual performance of an element or item in the game?
Dave Stark
#255 - 2014-05-09 23:21:13 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Things are changing, you have admitted so, you keep telling me to go back and read a blog that says they are, then you tell me to read a thread where those changes are reiterated. but for some reason you have disassociated those changes with the items they directly affect. That and refused to provide any logic or reasoning for doing so.

So let me ask again, how do you define a nerf or buff?


yes things are changing; the gecko isn't one of those things.

But something affecting the gecko is changing. Why do you see it appropriate to separate the item from the factors effecting it?

because it doesn't matter if they affect each other, one is being nerfed one is not. (hint: the one not being nerfed is the gecko)
So what you are saying is that you concept of a nerf is only related to individual numbers and has no bearing on the actual performance of an element or item in the game?


look, if the gecko were being nerfed the change would be uniform for all players. that's simply not the case because the gecko isn't being nerfed.
the change to drone interfacing is uniform for all players, because DI is being nerfed.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#256 - 2014-05-09 23:24:29 UTC
I'm going to give a Gecko to whoever wins this debate...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Dave Stark
#257 - 2014-05-09 23:24:59 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm going to give a Gecko to whoever wins this debate...

make sure it's in jita please, i don't want to fly to the arse end of nowhere to pick it up.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#258 - 2014-05-09 23:30:55 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
look, if the gecko were being nerfed the change would be uniform for all players. that's simply not the case because the gecko isn't being nerfed.
the change to drone interfacing is uniform for all players, because DI is being nerfed.
So the measure of a nerf is uniformity?
Dave Stark
#259 - 2014-05-09 23:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
look, if the gecko were being nerfed the change would be uniform for all players. that's simply not the case because the gecko isn't being nerfed.
the change to drone interfacing is uniform for all players, because DI is being nerfed.
So the measure of a nerf is uniformity?


if your leading questions aren't getting the answers you want. could you just construct them better instead of barraging me with ******** questions in an attempt to salvage... whatever it is you're trying to salvage.

also my alt will get the same damage with geckos pre and post kronos, so remind me how the gecko is being nerfed? (hint: it isn't)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2014-05-09 23:48:16 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
look, if the gecko were being nerfed the change would be uniform for all players. that's simply not the case because the gecko isn't being nerfed.
the change to drone interfacing is uniform for all players, because DI is being nerfed.
So the measure of a nerf is uniformity?


if your leading questions aren't getting the answers you want. could you just construct them better instead of barraging me with ******** questions in an attempt to salvage... whatever it is you're trying to salvage.

also my alt will get the same damage with geckos pre and post kronos, so remind me how the gecko is being nerfed? (hint: it isn't)
So again, your going with uniformity?
The barrage of questions if because you are noncommittal to all but variations on 2 statements prior to when I started asking. As stated, I'm trying to determine what your standard is here, and for the reason stated prior, it's not easy. You appear to be weaving a tapestry of BS held together by invoking situational "because I say so's." Essentially the Gecko isn't being nerfed because some people haven't trained drone interfacing, which means nothing to those who have, and nothing to the overall balance or desirability of the item.

Those last 2 I would consider important to evaluating something as a buff or nerf.