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Is the Nightmare getting a dps Buff?

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HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-05-07 18:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: HeXxploiT
So will the Nightmare be getting a DPS buff with the new changes?


Role Bonus: 
150% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)

Seems to me if they had dropped the 25% caldari BS bonus and then made the bonus to large energy turret 125% that would have kept the dps unchanged but with 150% large energy turret bonus this is actually a 12.5% overall dps buff.

Did I do my math correctly?
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#2 - 2014-05-07 18:38:44 UTC
HeXxploiT wrote:

Did I do my math correctly?

No.

Multiply, don't add.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-05-07 19:31:00 UTC
Assuming BS V, it doesn't get any damage boost from its bonuses.
Does get a low slot, so that's some damages if you add a heat sink.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#4 - 2014-05-07 19:48:37 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
HeXxploiT wrote:

Did I do my math correctly?

No.

Multiply, don't add.


To make this explicit:

Current Nightmare gets 4*(1+.25)*(1+1) = 10 effective turrets at max skills.

New Nightmare gets 4*(1+1.5) = 10 effective turrets just from the role bonus and none from skills.

Pretty much all math in Eve works this way (ignoring resistances which are a bit different and stacking penalties which throw a wrench in things something awful for quick forum maths). Certainly all additive non-resistance ship bonuses are calculated this way though. For things like RoF reduction you would instead take (initial turrets)/(1-reduction rate).
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#5 - 2014-05-07 20:08:34 UTC
It is a slight buff that you now get max damage from a nightmare even with Amarr BS trained to only level 1

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#6 - 2014-05-09 11:17:06 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
It is a slight buff that you now get max damage from a nightmare even with Amarr BS trained to only level 1


And ofc the extra low slot.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-05-09 13:12:23 UTC
It won't add damage for PVE because a 5th BCS gives you almost nothing with stacking penalties. Maybe a TE for damage projection but they're pretty crappy ATM. I'm thinking a DC for extra tank and this might free a mid slot. With it's new bonus maybe an AB setup with Conflagration would be interesting. Of course I'm thinking missions because I'm far to poor to fly one in PVP.

I bet all those incursion runners who trained Caldari BS to 5 for the Nightmare are sad... Yes I get an AB bonus!... Oh wait I don't move Cry
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-05-09 13:37:48 UTC
Any chance à nightmare with the new bonus will be faster with an AB than with a MWD?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-05-09 14:07:29 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


NIGHTMARE

Amarr Battleship Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
30% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)
NOTE: it's been requested that I point here that this is the same total damage bonus as the ship had prior to the change. (1.25 (25% bonus) * 2.00 (100% bonus) = 2.50 (150% bonus))


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L(+1); 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 14500 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 10550(+815) / 8650(-45) / 8200(-60)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 6950 / 1154000ms(-875) / 6.0
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 114(+20) / .122(-.014) / 99300000 / 17.76s(-1.9)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets):80km / 110(+10) / 7
Sensor strength: 28
Signature radius: 370(-30)



Same total damage bonus unless Rise is wrong. The gain to be had are in the additional low slot.
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-05-09 15:19:42 UTC
IIshira wrote:


I bet all those incursion runners who trained Caldari BS to 5 for the Nightmare are sad... Yes I get an AB bonus!... Oh wait I don't move Cry


IIshira wrote:


I bet all those incursion runners who trained Caldari BS to 5 for the Nightmare are sad... Yes I get an AB bonus!... Oh wait I don't move Cry



No...quoting you twice was not an accident...lol...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-05-09 15:58:39 UTC
IIshira wrote:
It won't add damage for PVE because a 5th BCS gives you almost nothing with stacking penalties. Maybe a TE for damage projection but they're pretty crappy ATM. I'm thinking a DC for extra tank and this might free a mid slot. With it's new bonus maybe an AB setup with Conflagration would be interesting. Of course I'm thinking missions because I'm far to poor to fly one in PVP.

I bet all those incursion runners who trained Caldari BS to 5 for the Nightmare are sad... Yes I get an AB bonus!... Oh wait I don't move Cry



Won't using an AB makes the ship that much less of a cap whore?
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-05-09 17:44:31 UTC
Its basicly the same with another low and a ****** up AB bonus which is going to be..... interesting.

I cant imagine all the pvpers will buy one though, probably just an incursion or worm hole pve boat

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#13 - 2014-05-09 19:28:43 UTC
Odithia wrote:
Any chance à nightmare with the new bonus will be faster with an AB than with a MWD?


Assuming caldari BS V:
A tech 2 AB (135% base speed) will be almost as fast as a MWD
Any faction AB with a base speed increase of 140% will be just as fast as a MWD, and anything over 140% will be faster than a MWD.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-05-10 00:23:34 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Its basicly the same with another low and a ****** up AB bonus which is going to be..... interesting.

I cant imagine all the pvpers will buy one though, probably just an incursion or worm hole pve boat



You really underestiamtes high sec mercenaries love for shiny toys....

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-05-10 01:14:16 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
Its basicly the same with another low and a ****** up AB bonus which is going to be..... interesting.

I cant imagine all the pvpers will buy one though, probably just an incursion or worm hole pve boat



You really underestiamtes high sec mercenaries love for shiny toys....

Yes because nothing like chasing a bunch of noobs around with a faction battleship. Even if they could fight back they won't so it's probably safer than missions LMAO
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-05-10 03:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
IIshira wrote:
It won't add damage for PVE because a 5th BCS gives you almost nothing with stacking penalties. Maybe a TE for damage projection but they're pretty crappy ATM. I'm thinking a DC for extra tank and this might free a mid slot. With it's new bonus maybe an AB setup with Conflagration would be interesting. Of course I'm thinking missions because I'm far to poor to fly one in PVP.

I bet all those incursion runners who trained Caldari BS to 5 for the Nightmare are sad... Yes I get an AB bonus!... Oh wait I don't move Cry


hmm did u ever do incursions, nm was great and in hq u move alot. And now it looks like it will even become cap stable, also i dont know yet what to add to the high. Mentioned before already but it would move as fast or faster than with mwd without the cap issues and sig bloom (ok bs but meh).
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#17 - 2014-05-13 11:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
The real question is; why would anyone care how well a nightmare does in missions, because the Paladin is so much better given the fact that, on top of its other good points, is immune to TDing.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-05-13 17:17:02 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
The real question is; why would anyone care how well a nightmare does in missions, because the Paladin is so much better given the fact that, on top of its other good points, is immune to TDing.

debatable. also, some people prefer shield tanks for various reasons.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#19 - 2014-05-14 09:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Daniel Plain wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
The real question is; why would anyone care how well a nightmare does in missions, because the Paladin is so much better given the fact that, on top of its other good points, is immune to TDing.

debatable. also, some people prefer shield tanks for various reasons.


No, it's not debatable.

better use of a MJD
more range
better tank, especially in "oh ****" moments
less slots wasted on tank
immune to ewar
cheaper fit while having more EHP, thus less of a gank target
more cargo room
more tractor range
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-05-14 13:24:34 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Gregor Parud wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
The real question is; why would anyone care how well a nightmare does in missions, because the Paladin is so much better given the fact that, on top of its other good points, is immune to TDing.

debatable. also, some people prefer shield tanks for various reasons.


No, it's not debatable.

better use of a MJD
more range
better tank, especially in "oh ****" moments
less slots wasted on tank
immune to ewar
cheaper fit while having more EHP, thus less of a gank target
more cargo room
more tractor range


Just to counter some of your points

better use of a MJD
Of course the Paladin gets better use of a MJD... The Nightmare doesn't need one since it doesn't perform it's best at 100km. The NM will get better use of an AB.

more range
Again the NM is for closer ranges than the Paladin

better tank, especially in "oh ****" moments
less slots wasted on tank
Less tank slots I can't argue with but I disagree with the "better tank". The Paladin can have a better tank than the NM. A properly fit mission Paladin doesn't have a better tank since it's meant for range. My Paladin only has a LAR, EANM and DC. Also the Nightmare can warp away if you're being overwhelmed. With those "Oh crap" moments in a Paladin you have to disengage Bastion and hope to god your complete lack of a tank in the time it takes you to align and warp works. Been there, done that and made it out in hull. Of course both have more than adequate tank and the only time you would have an issue is pilot error.

immune to ewar
I've only had one mission where EWAR was an issue in Amarr space. I can't think of the name but it was heavy TD. With other missions it was just simply take out the EWAR ships before they moved in range. Now if the Nightmare isn't properly fit or the pilot doesn't have sufficient skills to make the DPS low this can be an issue.

cheaper fit while having more EHP, thus less of a gank target
more cargo room
Can't argue with those since shield modules can be expensive. I will say I've never lost a Nightmare in highsec but that's because I'm careful.

more tractor range
I stay at 70 to 100km out in my Paladin so I only use the tractor beam to scoop the mission item. If you use it to loot this is a good thing.


I won't argue that the Paladin puts out more applied DPS than the NM since you can blast things at range. This translates to more ISK per hour. You have to remember not everyone cares about always getting max ISK per hour. I for one plan to try a in your face Mega Pulse NM once the changes happen. With the AB bonus I bet it would be fun.
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